I_have_NO_$$_for_Post_but_for_a_Filmoutput&RED Workflow

[Cüneyt Kaya]

So this THE I HAVE NO $$ FOR POST BUT FOR A FILMOUTPUT & RED WORKFLOW :) or
for a DPX 10 Bit log Master

edit with Redcode Quicktime Proxies in FCP
• FCP XML - Redcine XML (Red Trip)
• Color Balancing in Redcine
• Redcine -> Export DPX 10 BIT LOG RGB
• relink footage.
here you need GLUETOOLS....( DPX Import into FCP)
• FCP Material -> Color
• Color Grading
You should have something like Cinespace, and add a 3D Lut
• Color -> FCP
-add your final Sound Mix
-FCP to After Effects via Automatic Duck.
- in AE you have for example 65 layers for 65 cuts in FCP
- add Titles/Effects/Transitions
-render a dpx log sequence out of Aftereffects

If you want to bake in your 3d Lut for Broadcast/DVD/ Internet, you got to have to move to Color again and bake the 3d LUT in.

[Dustin Cross]

That sounds like the workflow I am planning to use.

One difference is I might use Colorista or Color Finesse plug-in in FCP. Automatic Duck will send your FCP settings in those plugins to AE.

Round tripping from Color still scares me.

[Cüneyt Kaya]

what about colorista and LUTs?

[Bruce Allen]

Personally I think the chances of you getting your LUTs, calibration, etc perfect in your garage for a film output are really slim. Based on Color's inability to reliably execute even simple tasks, I would be suspicious of doing fancy LUT stuff with it.

You should talk to the people who will actually do your film out and find out what color space they want it in.

To me, just working in 709 space is sensible for indies. Chances are the people doing your film out have done so from a 709 source before. Chances are zero they'll have done so from your custom color setup. If they screw something up in the filmout or misunderstand you, they can blame your color pipeline. If you go from 709, you at least have a chance at saying "well, the source was 709 and colors looked balanced on your broadcast monitor, but your filmout was way too purple. Please do it again and don't charge me."

BTW, how much is Cinespace actually?

Also, I think you might find RedCode to be too painful to do "real" editing with right now. Maybe consider going to another offline format. If you were using Avid, I'd suggest DNxHD36. For FCP, it's a big of a pain - ProRes is too data-heavy, DVCPROHD is weird resolution / aspect ratio... maype PhotoJPEG? Ah well.

Just trying to save you from a situation where you go to the filmout house with a stack of DPXes with a weird LUT applied (or incorrect color decisions made because you used an out-of-whack LUT) and they throw their hands up in horror and bill you tons to fix it...

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[laguun]

alternative:

transcode to 4k cineform or 4k dpx.
load adobe cs3.
output.

[Mark L. Pederson]

I hope you make enough money after a few of those jobs to buy a seat of Scratch. You will enjoy your nights and weekends more - but, I'm not knockin' ya - we did everything the hard way for years at Offhollywood - we sent movies to Sundance using alpha builds of Final Touch - sure glad those days are behind me ...

Bruce's post is spot on.

[Cüneyt Kaya]

Originally Posted by Bruce Allen

Personally I think the chances of you getting your LUTs, calibration, etc perfect in your garage for a film output are really slim. Based on Color's inability to reliably execute even simple tasks, I would be suspicious of doing fancy LUT stuff with it.

You should talk to the people who will actually do your film out and find out what color space they want it in.

To me, just working in 709 space is sensible for indies. Chances are the people doing your film out have done so from a 709 source before. Chances are zero they'll have done so from your custom color setup. If they screw something up in the filmout or misunderstand you, they can blame your color pipeline. If you go from 709, you at least have a chance at saying "well, the source was 709 and colors looked balanced on your broadcast monitor, but your filmout was way too purple. Please do it again and don't charge me."

BTW, how much is Cinespace actually?

Also, I think you might find RedCode to be too painful to do "real" editing with right now. Maybe consider going to another offline format. If you were using Avid, I'd suggest DNxHD36. For FCP, it's a big of a pain - ProRes is too data-heavy, DVCPROHD is weird resolution / aspect ratio... maype PhotoJPEG? Ah well.

Just trying to save you from a situation where you go to the filmout house with a stack of DPXes with a weird LUT applied (or incorrect color decisions made because you used an out-of-whack LUT) and they throw their hands up in horror and bill you tons to fix it...

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

There are even more problems doing this stuff at home.
It is definitly smarter to do it in a posthouse...i`ll do it in a posthouse
it will save me pain in the ass and time.

but simply if you are willing to do it @ home: its possible.
Its a shit way of doing it, but possible.
What Laguun says is also a possibility.

[eskatonia]

if you have that little money for post I'm not convinced aiming for a 10 bit log workflow will gain you anything but a lot of pain for very little actual gain that you can see in the final output.....

because unless you have experienced people that know how to grade / work in log you won't see the benefit and you need a budget to pay those people (they don't tend to work for free if they have feature film 10 bit log experience)

Thats why my workflow suggests-> convert to 10 bit linear codec, online in 10 bit, grade in 10 bit linear, then do an output to film either from a 10 bit HD tape format or 10 bit DPX image sequence.

about 10 times less pain, and a result that will be good enough for indie film screenings.

workflow papers here:
www.coremelt.com/support/workflow

[Videoteque73]

To me, just working in 709 space is sensible for indies. Chances are the people doing your film out have done so from a 709 source before. Chances are zero they'll have done so from your custom color setup. If they screw something up in the filmout or misunderstand you, they can blame your color pipeline. If you go from 709, you at least have a chance at saying "well, the source was 709 and colors looked balanced on your broadcast monitor, but your filmout was way too purple. Please do it again and don't charge me."

Good piece of realistic advice.

Eskatonia is right too. Don't break your head to go log when you can do linear... BTW nice to see you here, I know you from VJ Forums!!!

I only did a filmout once in my life, but they proved that they barely know how to press the one button that does everything in automatic... :waaa: :waaa:

[Cüneyt Kaya]

the coremelt workflow is really good.
And the Cineform workflow is really good, too.
Chances and problems from a filmoutput in REC709 have to be explored, but seems good to stay in lin.


the point here is:
If you summarize the costs of stress, problems,traps and the most important thing: the hours you are spending with such kind of workflow, the conclusion would be for me...
spend the EXTRA MONEY @ a Posthouse and let it be done propper.
You already spend 30k for a Cam, another lets say 5-8 k for your editing suite, and if you would have shot a feature, you would have spend another 30-50 k (ultralowbudget), then you should do it right and spend the EXTRA MONEY for a Posthouse.

But there will be the guys, who will borrow a friends RED, shoot with actor friends just on laction and with available light, who will do everything @ home.
And if they are quality fanatics, thats a cheap way to go.

The guys will spend for their movie less then 10000 USD.
For sure it would be a challenge...