Red Camera Motion Picture Examples And 4k Workflow

Marc Bachli · 09-17-2007, 04:07 PM

Check out the site. File is 18megs 10sec long. Shot with 25mm Ziess HS prime.

http://web.mac.com/fini1/iWeb/Site%2...%20Camera.html

IAN SUN · 09-17-2007, 05:04 PM

Niiice!
But whats up with the banding from the strobe? Is that a compression artifact?

Graeme Nattress · 09-17-2007, 05:19 PM

RED One uses a fast rolling shutter. If you don't sync the flash to the shutter, it can split the flash. It's not a compression artifact.

Graeme

Marc Bachli · 09-17-2007, 05:39 PM

Yes, its something we noticed near the top of the day but decided we loved it because the pictures from the censor looked so great. Hopefully the kids that watch MTV love it too. People who arent savy with video dont notice it.

The strobing is caused from the fast rolling shutter on the red camera. I also found out from shooting tests that 1/48th is not really 1/48th on the red. More like 1/32 and that the 320ASA is more like a 100ASA so you need to poor on the light for interiors. We used Ziess high speed primes T1.3 and had a 6K HMI with 216 about 30ft away from talent as fill light. Performace was lit with 4ft 4 bank kino on low output as a key light about 5 ft from the lead singer and 2ft 4 bank kino as a backlight above the drummer. The images at 4K are grain free. If I used the 320ASA rating from Red I feel like I would have been underexposing the images. After evaluating the images in a telecine suite using an SONY HD CRT monitor I feel I overexposed 1 stop which I will continue to do to avoid grain.

Mr. Nattress at RED is working on the strobing issue.

Kjetil Haugen · 09-17-2007, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Bachli

I also found out from shooting tests that 1/48th is not really 1/48th on the red. More like 1/32

How did you come to that conclusion?

Taylor Morrison · 09-17-2007, 05:49 PM

Graeme,
Could we speak about the "fast rolling shutter" a bit. Does the shutter split the frame as it looks to in the clip from this post? Also it looks to split the frame at varable places within the frame. I am familiar with the rolling shutter of a film cam but this seems a bit odd. Is this a setting that can be corrected? How would this present problems with shooting monitors or HMI lamps for example?

Kjetil Haugen · 09-17-2007, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graeme Nattress

RED One uses a fast rolling shutter. If you don't sync the flash to the shutter, it can split the flash. It's not a compression artifact.

Graeme

I guess this would become a problem when dealing with lightning simulation and gunfire indoors.

How exactly would one sync up Red?

Marc, the footage looks great by the way!

Marc Bachli · 09-17-2007, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kjetil Haugen

How did you come to that conclusion?

I have shot about 200 music videos, most on 35mm so I know exacly what 1/48th looks like as a still image and the Red looked like it blurred the images a bit more than it should at real 1/48th. I think the solution would be to shoot at 1/90 (if that'seven a shutter angle on the red). Graeme and I also spoke about it. What an amazing camera so far though. This has changed everything for me.

Kjetil Haugen · 09-17-2007, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Bachli

I have shot about 200 music videos, most on 35mm so I know exacly what 1/48th looks like as a still image and the Red looked like it blurred the images a bit more than it should at real 1/48th. I think the solution would be to shoot at 1/90 (if that'seven a shutter angle on the red). Graeme and I also spoke about it. What an amazing camera so far though. This has changed everything for me.

Good to know, thanks. Yeah this camera has endless posibilities, I think. Very exiting times! It all comes down to the user in the end, and I think the knowledge we gain here will help us get the best out of the camera.

The clip looks great. Very encouraging! Was this all tweeked in Red Alert or did you do anything else while in after effects?

Deanan · 09-18-2007, 01:11 AM

To get around the strobe issue, the duration of your strobe needs to be
closer to a 24th of a second and synced to your shutter so you don't
flash the strobe in the middle of a frame exposure.

What you're seeing as underexposure is really more to do with
how one rates and processes raw. What settings are you using
to process the footage you shot at 320?

1/48 really is 1/48 on the camera. The only setting that is not
accurate is 1/24th which is currently mislabeled because the
final timing on the wide open / no shutter is still in flux.

Deanan

09-17-2007, 04:07 PM	#1
Marc Bachli Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 20	Red Camera Motion Picture Examples And 4k Workflow Check out the site. File is 18megs 10sec long. Shot with 25mm Ziess HS prime. http://web.mac.com/fini1/iWeb/Site%2...%20Camera.html

09-17-2007, 05:04 PM	#2
IAN SUN Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 614	Niiice! But whats up with the banding from the strobe? Is that a compression artifact? __________________ . . . . .........Ian Sun.......... Anansi Moving Images MX RED ONE 1080p+++ ....... T O R O N T O .......

09-17-2007, 05:19 PM	#3
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,011	RED One uses a fast rolling shutter. If you don't sync the flash to the shutter, it can split the flash. It's not a compression artifact. Graeme __________________ www.red.com - 5k Digital Cinema Camera Science enables stories. Stories drive science FLUT™, Image Processing, Colour Science and Demosaic Algorithms, RED4K delivery

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09-17-2007, 05:39 PM	#4
Marc Bachli Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 20	Yes, its something we noticed near the top of the day but decided we loved it because the pictures from the censor looked so great. Hopefully the kids that watch MTV love it too. People who arent savy with video dont notice it. The strobing is caused from the fast rolling shutter on the red camera. I also found out from shooting tests that 1/48th is not really 1/48th on the red. More like 1/32 and that the 320ASA is more like a 100ASA so you need to poor on the light for interiors. We used Ziess high speed primes T1.3 and had a 6K HMI with 216 about 30ft away from talent as fill light. Performace was lit with 4ft 4 bank kino on low output as a key light about 5 ft from the lead singer and 2ft 4 bank kino as a backlight above the drummer. The images at 4K are grain free. If I used the 320ASA rating from Red I feel like I would have been underexposing the images. After evaluating the images in a telecine suite using an SONY HD CRT monitor I feel I overexposed 1 stop which I will continue to do to avoid grain. Mr. Nattress at RED is working on the strobing issue.

09-17-2007, 05:49 PM	#6
Taylor Morrison Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: North of NYC Posts: 106	Graeme, Could we speak about the "fast rolling shutter" a bit. Does the shutter split the frame as it looks to in the clip from this post? Also it looks to split the frame at varable places within the frame. I am familiar with the rolling shutter of a film cam but this seems a bit odd. Is this a setting that can be corrected? How would this present problems with shooting monitors or HMI lamps for example?

09-18-2007, 01:11 AM	#10
Deanan Red Team Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 2,718	To get around the strobe issue, the duration of your strobe needs to be closer to a 24th of a second and synced to your shutter so you don't flash the strobe in the middle of a frame exposure. What you're seeing as underexposure is really more to do with how one rates and processes raw. What settings are you using to process the footage you shot at 320? 1/48 really is 1/48 on the camera. The only setting that is not accurate is 1/24th which is currently mislabeled because the final timing on the wide open / no shutter is still in flux. Deanan