EVF questions to users who have one already...

Axel Mertes · 02-29-2008, 11:04 AM

Hi to those around who are lucky enough to have one of those EVF in their hands!

As we are still waiting for delivery - and it seems to take some more time - I'd like to know a few things about the EVF:

How large does the image seem to be when you look into the EVF?
I mean, most viewfinders have magnifying lenses that give you the feeling of watching a larger TV or even a big cinema screen. So how would you describe it, how large does it seem to be?
Maybe one can compare to a real world object, like "if I were standing 3 meters away of a 5 meters wall, it looks about the same size when looking into the EVF with a 18mm lense and the same wall from the same distance" - something like this would be helpful to me!

How heavy is the EVF, after all?
I read all this about the ET mount coming up and wonder if it is really soooo heavy.

Any hints very welcome,
Axel

Rick Darge · 02-29-2008, 11:28 AM

Hey Axel

I was at ET yesterday and saw the EVF and their mount. It's really friggin massive and heavy. Holding it in my hand, I can't believe that is only $3k Wasn't able to check out a working picture

M_Sanderson · 03-01-2008, 09:19 AM

Can the red one do scan reversal like the varicam when using prisms and scopes or other non standard lenses.

Or can you swing the whole evf 180 degrees to get the equivalent?

Steve Gibby · 03-01-2008, 09:36 AM

I've been using a RED EVF extensively since mid-December, so outside of RED Team, I'd probably be one of the best people here to answer your questions.

First, the weight and dimensions:

Weight = 2.4 pounds
Overall length, including telescoping rubber eyepiece (3/4") = 8"
Width at widest point = 33/4"
Diopter portion length = 21/2"

2.4 pounds is not that heavy folks. I've seen thread comments suggesting the RED EVF is some mega-heavy behemoth - not so. 8" long is not excessively long by professional EVF standards. The EVF on high end EFP camera systems, if you measure the entire length from the very front of the EVF, past the 45 degree bend, and to the end of the eyepiece, is usually from 8 to 9" long. I have an F900R sitting right here in my office. I just measured from the front of the EVF to the end of the rubber eyepiece on it. Results = 9". Granted the EVF is lighter. I'm not going to remove it just to weigh it, but my estimate would be 1.5 pounds, in other words, less than a pound lighter than the RED EVF.

I beta tested the ET EVF mount back in December with my RED EVF. I now have my own ET EVF mount. When I get a chance, I'll weigh it also. It is well built. My guess is it weighs around 1 pound. I love the ET EVF mount.

The RED EVF is far and away the best EVF I've used in a 35 year career with top-end TV/video cameras. IMO those spreading FUD, who invariably haven't used the RED EVF, and are saying that users will supposedly not be able to sight focus for critical focus with RED using the RED focus tools (2x, magic focus), and RED EVF because its "only" 720p, are in for a pleasant surprise when they use a RED EVF. When I've needed shallow DOF, I've been easily sight focusing 4k images by myself (no focus puller or AC), at wide open apertures using the RED EVF, in tandem with 2x image magnification and focus assist.

IMO the key component of the RED EVF that enables critical focus is the high-quality diopter. There is some serious glass in the diopter, which takes up 21/2" of the overall length of the EVF, and undoubtedly much of the weight. The diopter has a smooth twist adjustment, so that anyone's eyes can get a clear focus of the image.

When your eye is placed to the eyecup, and the diopter is adjusted for your eye, the 720p image is large and crystal clear. For me, critical focus for the shallowest of DOF needs has been readily achievable - no measuring tapes, no focus puller, just me racking my own focus quickly. If you want to use tapes and focus pullers, sure you can, but my point is that you don't have to if you don't want to, don't have them available, and/or the mobility of the shot won't allow it. The option to sight focus 4k (and naturally 2k) is a reality with RED ONE and the RED EVF.

In my normal mobile hybrid cine/EFP work I sight focus everything and set exposure quickly using zebras. Both parameters have been consistently accurate for me for over 6 months of shooting with RED ONE.

Again, the RED EVF seriously rocks! It unlocks the potential of the camera. I like the LCD too, and use it for high angle, low angle, water housing, and many other uses. I need both the EVF and LCD for my work. If you can only afford the LCD, yes, you can also do critical focus by sight with it, just not as easily as with the EVF.

There will undoubtedly be others entering this thread with "you can't sight focus 4k with a 720p EVF" statements. I'd like to invite each of them to start their posts with a summary of the length and breadth of their hands on experience with RED ONE, and then to include the length and breadth of their hands on experience using a RED EVF with RED ONE.

NateWeaver · 03-01-2008, 10:45 AM

I saw James Mathers EVF last night at Alpha Dogs in Burbank.

It is heavy in comparison to what some people might be expecting for it's volume, but if in fact it is 2.4 pounds, then I'd agree it's an illusion of sorts.

It was however pretty dark, and definitely crashing some blacks out. I assume there is a backlight brightness that can be adjusted for your environment., if so, I'm sure this one was set at lowest.

Other than that, the image was huge and high res. 720p might not seem like much, but if you've peered through a finder for a living in the past, it's a shockingly high res image compared to everything previous (unless you've been shooting with the new Sony color finder, or an Accuscene for the last year or two).

Steve Gibby · 03-01-2008, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NateWeaver

I saw James Mathers EVF last night at Alpha Dogs in Burbank.

It is heavy in comparison to what some people might be expecting for it's volume, but if in fact it is 2.4 pounds, then I'd agree it's an illusion of sorts.

It was however pretty dark, and definitely crashing some blacks out. I assume there is a backlight brightness that can be adjusted for your environment., if so, I'm sure this one was set at lowest.

Other than that, the image was huge and high res. 720p might not seem like much, but if you've peered through a finder for a living in the past, it's a shockingly high res image compared to everything previous (unless you've been shooting with the new Sony color finder, or an Accuscene for the last year or two).

Hey Nate,

2.4 pounds is the exact weight as per my scale here...

The rotary dial on the side of the EVF adjusts the brightness, among other things. Check out the Build 14 camera ops manual PDF for details (available on RED support page). I'm running Build 14, which has a default setting for EVF to enable enhanced dark detail. If for some reason the default dark detail setting doesn't come up as enabled, the dark detail 2% can also be checked manually in a checkbox within the Viewfinder menu on RED ONE.

Agreed, it is the clearest image I've seen through an EVF in my career - and I've used a boatload of high end EVFs - even an improvement over the Accuscene, which it is based upon.

Glad to hear James Mathers has a RED EVF now. I'm sure he'll enjoy working with it.

Axel Mertes · 03-02-2008, 04:28 AM

Gibby,

big thanks for the reply. We have the EVF on order since day one, we just need to wait a little longer (we are RED ONE #110, at current there seem to be 40+ EVFs in the market as far as I've heard, so some weeks to wait until the production is ramped up as required).

My main concern is the felt viewing angle of what I can see when looking through the EVF. Imagine standing in front of 50" screen showing the same image, how close you need to stay to that 50" screen to have the same feeling as when looking through the EVF on the same signal?

Any clue here for me?

And yes, I second that input is only valid from experienced users here, I get annoyed sometimes by too much speculations... Thats why I clearly asked this to users who have an EVF (as I know there are sooo few at this point).

I can't wait to get mine in hands.

Cheers,
Axel

Blair S. Paulsen · 03-02-2008, 05:02 AM

Like Gibby I shoot in a wide variety of modes to match project specifications. Due to its 35mm type depth of field characteristics shooting the RedOne "film style" with a good 1st AC is highly recommended but not always the case. Pulling your own focus as a camera op is sooooo much easier with the EVF than with any LCD I have used on the RedOne (Panny 8.4", RED LCD, Astro). I concur that the diopter on the RED EVF is excellent and magnifies the image nicely.

I have only had the EVF for 3 weeks but I am already a stark raving fan. Shooting a live concert with no puller on an 85mm Zeiss SuperSpeed between T1.3 and T2 at a range of 15 to 35 feet (5 to 12 meters) I was able to find and keep focus over 95% of the time despite the high activity level of the lead singer.

IMHO the EVF is the single most important accessory for the RedOne, period.

Joe D'Arcy · 03-02-2008, 05:14 AM

Thanks Gibby. This is just the experiential info I have been looking for over the past week.

02-29-2008, 11:28 AM	#2
Rick Darge Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,029	Hey Axel I was at ET yesterday and saw the EVF and their mount. It's really friggin massive and heavy. Holding it in my hand, I can't believe that is only $3k Wasn't able to check out a working picture __________________ Red 363 MX Canon PL K-35 Superspeeds cin / edi / dir www.rickdarge.com http://www.theredshooter.com/

03-01-2008, 09:19 AM	#3
M_Sanderson Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 168	scan reversal Can the red one do scan reversal like the varicam when using prisms and scopes or other non standard lenses. Or can you swing the whole evf 180 degrees to get the equivalent?

03-01-2008, 09:36 AM	#4
Steve Gibby Red Savant Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Southern Utah and worldwide Posts: 2,809	I've been using a RED EVF extensively since mid-December, so outside of RED Team, I'd probably be one of the best people here to answer your questions. First, the weight and dimensions: Weight = 2.4 pounds Overall length, including telescoping rubber eyepiece (3/4") = 8" Width at widest point = 33/4" Diopter portion length = 21/2" 2.4 pounds is not that heavy folks. I've seen thread comments suggesting the RED EVF is some mega-heavy behemoth - not so. 8" long is not excessively long by professional EVF standards. The EVF on high end EFP camera systems, if you measure the entire length from the very front of the EVF, past the 45 degree bend, and to the end of the eyepiece, is usually from 8 to 9" long. I have an F900R sitting right here in my office. I just measured from the front of the EVF to the end of the rubber eyepiece on it. Results = 9". Granted the EVF is lighter. I'm not going to remove it just to weigh it, but my estimate would be 1.5 pounds, in other words, less than a pound lighter than the RED EVF. I beta tested the ET EVF mount back in December with my RED EVF. I now have my own ET EVF mount. When I get a chance, I'll weigh it also. It is well built. My guess is it weighs around 1 pound. I love the ET EVF mount. The RED EVF is far and away the best EVF I've used in a 35 year career with top-end TV/video cameras. IMO those spreading FUD, who invariably haven't used the RED EVF, and are saying that users will supposedly not be able to sight focus for critical focus with RED using the RED focus tools (2x, magic focus), and RED EVF because its "only" 720p, are in for a pleasant surprise when they use a RED EVF. When I've needed shallow DOF, I've been easily sight focusing 4k images by myself (no focus puller or AC), at wide open apertures using the RED EVF, in tandem with 2x image magnification and focus assist. IMO the key component of the RED EVF that enables critical focus is the high-quality diopter. There is some serious glass in the diopter, which takes up 21/2" of the overall length of the EVF, and undoubtedly much of the weight. The diopter has a smooth twist adjustment, so that anyone's eyes can get a clear focus of the image. When your eye is placed to the eyecup, and the diopter is adjusted for your eye, the 720p image is large and crystal clear. For me, critical focus for the shallowest of DOF needs has been readily achievable - no measuring tapes, no focus puller, just me racking my own focus quickly. If you want to use tapes and focus pullers, sure you can, but my point is that you don't have to if you don't want to, don't have them available, and/or the mobility of the shot won't allow it. The option to sight focus 4k (and naturally 2k) is a reality with RED ONE and the RED EVF. In my normal mobile hybrid cine/EFP work I sight focus everything and set exposure quickly using zebras. Both parameters have been consistently accurate for me for over 6 months of shooting with RED ONE. Again, the RED EVF seriously rocks! It unlocks the potential of the camera. I like the LCD too, and use it for high angle, low angle, water housing, and many other uses. I need both the EVF and LCD for my work. If you can only afford the LCD, yes, you can also do critical focus by sight with it, just not as easily as with the EVF. There will undoubtedly be others entering this thread with "you can't sight focus 4k with a 720p EVF" statements. I'd like to invite each of them to start their posts with a summary of the length and breadth of their *hands on* experience with RED ONE, and then to include the length and breadth of their *hands on* experience using a RED EVF with RED ONE. __________________ Steve Gibby RED #0008 and "London" www.cut4.tv (Production & consulting) http://redconnector.com/user/gibby (Equip. & Bio) http://www.artbeats.com/footage/search?fh44=1 (Artbeats Gibby RED Stock Collection)

03-01-2008, 10:45 AM	#5
NateWeaver Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 640	I saw James Mathers EVF last night at Alpha Dogs in Burbank. It is heavy in comparison to what some people might be expecting for it's volume, but if in fact it is 2.4 pounds, then I'd agree it's an illusion of sorts. It was however pretty dark, and definitely crashing some blacks out. I assume there is a backlight brightness that can be adjusted for your environment., if so, I'm sure this one was set at lowest. Other than that, the image was huge and high res. 720p might not seem like much, but if you've peered through a finder for a living in the past, it's a shockingly high res image compared to everything previous (unless you've been shooting with the new Sony color finder, or an Accuscene for the last year or two). __________________ Nate Weaver Director/D.P., Los Angeles www.nateweaver.net

03-02-2008, 05:02 AM	#8
Blair S. Paulsen Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,144	The RED EVF rocks hard Like Gibby I shoot in a wide variety of modes to match project specifications. Due to its 35mm type depth of field characteristics shooting the RedOne "film style" with a good 1st AC is highly recommended but not always the case. Pulling your own focus as a camera op is sooooo much easier with the EVF than with any LCD I have used on the RedOne (Panny 8.4", RED LCD, Astro). I concur that the diopter on the RED EVF is excellent and magnifies the image nicely. I have only had the EVF for 3 weeks but I am already a stark raving fan. Shooting a live concert with no puller on an 85mm Zeiss SuperSpeed between T1.3 and T2 at a range of 15 to 35 feet (5 to 12 meters) I was able to find and keep focus over 95% of the time despite the high activity level of the lead singer. IMHO the EVF is the single most important accessory for the RedOne, period. __________________ 4K • ninjas

02-29-2008, 11:04 AM	#1
Axel Mertes Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 513	EVF questions to users who have one already... Hi to those around who are lucky enough to have one of those EVF in their hands! As we are still waiting for delivery - and it seems to take some more time - I'd like to know a few things about the EVF: How large does the image seem to be when you look into the EVF? I mean, most viewfinders have magnifying lenses that give you the feeling of watching a larger TV or even a big cinema screen. So how would you describe it, how large does it seem to be? Maybe one can compare to a real world object, like "if I were standing 3 meters away of a 5 meters wall, it looks about the same size when looking into the EVF with a 18mm lense and the same wall from the same distance" - something like this would be helpful to me! How heavy is the EVF, after all? I read all this about the ET mount coming up and wonder if it is really soooo heavy. Any hints very welcome, Axel

03-02-2008, 04:28 AM	#7
Axel Mertes Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 513	Gibby, big thanks for the reply. We have the EVF on order since day one, we just need to wait a little longer (we are RED ONE #110, at current there seem to be 40+ EVFs in the market as far as I've heard, so some weeks to wait until the production is ramped up as required). My main concern is the felt viewing angle of what I can see when looking through the EVF. Imagine standing in front of 50" screen showing the same image, how close you need to stay to that 50" screen to have the same feeling as when looking through the EVF on the same signal? Any clue here for me? And yes, I second that input is only valid from experienced users here, I get annoyed sometimes by too much speculations... Thats why I clearly asked this to users who have an EVF (as I know there are sooo few at this point). I can't wait to get mine in hands. Cheers, Axel

03-02-2008, 05:14 AM	#9
Joe D'Arcy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Gold Coast Queensland Australia Posts: 299	Thanks Gibby. This is just the experiential info I have been looking for over the past week.

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