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View Full Version : Any New OLPFs at NAB2015?



Mike P.
04-23-2015, 10:47 AM
Were there any new OLPFs announced at NAB? Was the H20 shown off?

In all the camera announcement rigamarole, I'm not sure if I missed it (and prior to the Weapon hints, I was hopeful that there'd be some).

Clark Dunbar
04-23-2015, 11:01 AM
yes - new OLPF's at the booth and are now shipping!

http://www.red.com/store/olpfs

Christoffer Glans
04-23-2015, 11:16 AM
I wonder if Red is working on a version II of the STH? Since it's easier to switch OLPFs now, it should be easy to just continue improving the OLPF at the same time as improving the color science internally. :thumbsup:

Mike P.
04-23-2015, 12:04 PM
Cool, thanks Clark.

Drat! I was kind of hoping for more look-associated OLFPs. (e.g. Kodak OLPF, Fuji OLPF, LowCon, etc.) Also price got jacked up on the specialty ones, huh? I guess they'd be shipping lower numbers.

Craig Lees
04-23-2015, 01:20 PM
+1000 on Kodak & Fuji & lowcon & STH v2 OLPFS!!

: )

Craig Lees
ED UK
3dstories.co.uk

Demetri Zuev
04-23-2015, 01:35 PM
IR PASS OLPF (COLOR) sounds interesting, but does someone have a picture that illustrates the effect?

Phil Holland
04-23-2015, 02:57 PM
Cool, thanks Clark.

Drat! I was kind of hoping for more look-associated OLFPs. (e.g. Kodak OLPF, Fuji OLPF, LowCon, etc.) Also price got jacked up on the specialty ones, huh? I guess they'd be shipping lower numbers.

Yep. The "specialty" OLPFs are exactly that in many ways. Particularly for our Bubble Blowing friends the H2O OLPF represents something really, really exciting.

While LowCon is happening in the 3rd party fashion from KipperTie, I don't think it's something RED will ever officially release for a few reasons. But who knows. Anything is possible.

As for asking for a Kodak or Fuji OLPF, that is silly. Really, really silly. Get yourself a quality 3D LUT or make a custom look in REDCINE-X PRO to emulate as best as possible the tonal curve and color transform.

John Marchant
04-23-2015, 03:18 PM
Lowcon's will come from us. Its a project in progress happening as fast as I can make it... but its still several weeks away from fruition.

Ces Peynetti
04-23-2015, 03:42 PM
IR PASS OLPF (COLOR) sounds interesting, but does someone have a picture that illustrates the effect?


I would LOVE to see some examples of this OLPF.

Björn Benckert
04-23-2015, 03:53 PM
I would LOVE to see some examples of this OLPF.

I actually had it in the shop for a few days, ordered it fist day of NAB. Got it a few days later. Was really happy about having it but had no camera to test it on... Then I got a mail from RED Europe that I had to send it back... Apparently they where short in supply and some mistake was made so while everyone was at NAB somebody sent it off to me even though I was not first in line for it, so they promptly needed it back.

But I already had opened it an checked it out, as it looks its a bit of glass that is so clear it's even hard to see the glass when you hold the olpf in front of you, which I find rather interesting, I really would have loved to test it at night to see what happens.

But I guess I have to wait to do so. Lol.

Maik Müller
04-24-2015, 05:53 AM
If i remember correctly a "man-in-the-middle"-OLPF is in development. It will be sitting between the LL and STH, i guess thats something we could consider being the STH2.

LOL, Björn, thats a funny story.

Phil Moreton
04-24-2015, 07:23 AM
It would be good to see some examples of these new OLPFs.
Not just stills with them in use but with and without examples either stills or motion would be very helpful to decide on purchasing them to play with.

Id love to see what the results are when using the IR Spectrum Zero Lowpass filter when not shooting with a fully desaturated setting.

Also is RED's DSMC IR PASS OLPF (COLOR) the same as KipperTie's IR Spectrum Zero Lowpass filter?

Mike P.
04-24-2015, 07:24 AM
I dunno Phil; that's like saying filters are silly because you can do most (if not all) types of filtration in post. I'd be willing to bet that a lot of cinematographers would prefer to have an inherent look as close to their vision as possible coming out of the camera, making it less changeable down the post-pipeline (you read about the Dying of the Light fiasco?)... Even more so for Weapon, with it's built-in prores -- if it ends up shooting 4k prores, there will definitely be productions that use that as their acquisition format (and not 4444 or 4444XQ, but 422).

And, again, if they were only $195, people would buy... Conversely, $595 is a little rich for something that's subjective/artistic choice (unless the shooter absolutely needs them -- like bubble blowers see clear IQ advantages with the H20, for example).

In other words, you have swappable OLPF capability with Dragon; why not take full advantage of it, rather than just have half a dozen experimental (at best) options.

John Marchant
04-24-2015, 11:03 AM
Also is RED's DSMC IR PASS OLPF (COLOR) the same as KipperTie's IR Spectrum Zero Lowpass filter?

Not quite the same - the RED version has the standard lowpass filter in place to remove any chance of spatial aliasing. I would expect comparable colour related performance though.

Phil Moreton
04-24-2015, 11:28 AM
Not quite the same - the RED version has the standard lowpass filter in place to remove any chance of spatial aliasing. I would expect comparable colour related performance though.

Can't wait to see some examples.

Craig Lees
04-24-2015, 12:37 PM
I use FilmConvert plugin for Kodak & Fuji looks but HATE the added MASSIVE render times. Would be great to achieve this look in the original signal chain. It's possible to export 3DLUT from filmconvert but I don't really want to spend £6.5K on a REDcast or more for a weapon upgrade as a solution to make this happen. A £200 OLPF however: win!

I actually think Kodak & Fuji would sell a fair few of these. Call them FilmStock OLPF's?!?

I have no idea how much work goes into perfecting these coatings and how much info RED would ever offer a third party such as Kodak re: their Dragon CFA but I know I have a lot of transparency Kodak & Fuji 120 roll film in my fridge that my wife would love to see me be replaced with some nice vino or something else more tangible for her "uninterested in camera palette" ; )

Hell, even various Kodak & fuji stocks Dragon .RMDs would do!

I'll stop dreaming now.

Sigh.

: )

Craig Lees
ED UK
3dstories.co.uk

Phil Moreton
04-24-2015, 01:41 PM
I'm surprised no one has started a thread or created a sub-forum for individual RED Looks.
Would be great to start building a library of RED looks for our cameras.

Mike P.
04-24-2015, 03:26 PM
Or links to LUTs even, finally tuned for RLF/RC4/DC2/MX/Dragon...

Phil Moreton
04-25-2015, 08:34 AM
Or links to LUTs even, finally tuned for RLF/RC4/DC2/MX/Dragon...

There are lots of LUTs about, easily used on all the new monitors or RED Weapon but for Epic & Scarlet I'd love some interesting Red Looks.
I have a lot of clients that STILL don't ever go back to the RED RAW footage to grade. So on those jobs I like to give them an image that is pretty much burnt for them for the final picture lock and export.

Peter Lyons Collister, ASC
04-25-2015, 03:01 PM
Here is a beautiful example of the IR OLPF (from John)

https://vimeo.com/125947740

Mike P.
04-25-2015, 07:10 PM
Thanks for the link Peter (and John for the IR... and Ivan for that sweet example.)

Hey Phil, how do you feel about DC2/RG4? Honestly, I find that RG4 with a 0.1-to-0.2 shadow setting is pretty solid out of the camera for 709. Or are you talking more about creative looks (like offer them a sepia look, a bleach bypass look, oversaturated look, etc)?

Phil Holland
04-25-2015, 07:39 PM
Thanks for the link Peter (and John for the IR... and Ivan for that sweet example.)

Hey Phil, how do you feel about DC2/RG4? Honestly, I find that RG4 with a 0.1-to-0.2 shadow setting is pretty solid out of the camera for 709. Or are you talking more about creative looks (like offer them a sepia look, a bleach bypass look, oversaturated look, etc)?

A bit of both. I have "utility" Looks and creative Looks.

My utility looks are often simple "starters" like going from the DRAGONcolor(2)/REDgamma4 I might have recorded in camera to a DRAGONcolor(2)/REDlogFilm space with a custom curve to emulate the same effect of REDgamma4 and then I can either touch the color from there in RCX or go to my grading application at that point.

My creative Looks are all over the place and range from general stock emulation to things like bleach bypassed, day for night, and other weird things I've generated over time.

Now that RCX has 3D LUT support the various LUTs I've made over the years are coming back into play a bit. Some I've been tweaking and creating newer versions of. Most of those were generated to effect film scans in log space.

Heh. Saw my old studio's Northlight 6K (Northlight 1) film scanner up on Ebay a bit ago. Looks like a private buyer snatched it up. Somebody must have had this photo laying around from one of my internal data sheets. I took it years ago with a Sigma 14mm prime.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/North-Light-Film-Scanner-For-Sale-Or-Rent-/281266773890?nma=true&si=c%252F2BssNFywm3bDTBMueYhpjTxbw%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Filmlight made the best scanners as far as I'm concerned.

Christoffer Glans
04-26-2015, 02:59 AM
If i remember correctly a "man-in-the-middle"-OLPF is in development. It will be sitting between the LL and STH, i guess thats something we could consider being the STH2.

LOL, Björn, thats a funny story.

Really? That would be a really nice best-of-both-worlds OLPF :beer:

Maik Müller
04-26-2015, 07:00 AM
Really? That would be a really nice best-of-both-worlds OLPF :beer:
Can't find the post but i am pretty sure it was Jarred who mentioned it.

Dan Kanes
04-26-2015, 09:39 AM
I believe it was Codename "Goldilocks"

"Just Right"

Mike P.
04-26-2015, 01:03 PM
heh, I was actually posting the question to Phil Moreton (who suggested a forum of RCX looks), Not Dr. Phil (Holland)... But I still appreciate your insight Phil!

Phil Moreton
04-26-2015, 03:19 PM
Here is a beautiful example of the IR OLPF (from John)

https://vimeo.com/125947740

Wow, that is very beautiful, almost has a feeling of a moonlit painting.
Was that a standard dragon with the IR Spectrum Zero Lowpass filter or the full spectrum version?

John Marchant
04-26-2015, 03:20 PM
Full spectrum for sure, but with IR pass front of lens I believe.

Phil Moreton
04-26-2015, 03:29 PM
Thanks for the link Peter (and John for the IR... and Ivan for that sweet example.)

Hey Phil, how do you feel about DC2/RG4? Honestly, I find that RG4 with a 0.1-to-0.2 shadow setting is pretty solid out of the camera for 709. Or are you talking more about creative looks (like offer them a sepia look, a bleach bypass look, oversaturated look, etc)?

More creative looks like you suggested really. It would be great to have possible options like that.
It's kinda a shame that we can only send a redlog look and one graded look to different monitors.
I'd like to send two different graded looks through our monitoring outputs. For example- one standard DC1/RG4 and then a look that we have created in RCX Pro.

I know to a certain degree that RCX Pro is limited compared to a real LUT, but I think it can be pretty powerful if put into the right hands.
I think I prefer dragon colour 1 or sometimes even red colour 2 (Lol, call me crazy). I kinda like the less saturated colours of those two colour spaces.

Phil Moreton
04-26-2015, 03:31 PM
Full spectrum for sure, but with IR pass front of lens I believe.

Hi John,

Do you have these OLPFs to rent as well?
would love to rent to test before knowing which one to buy so I can play with further.