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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Why Did Canon...?

M

McKay Olson

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I know this is a Red Forum, but on November 3rd, why did Canon announce the C300 next to the Scarlet when the Scarlet can shoot 5K (4K 24 fps) while the C300 can only shoot 1080p (good 1080p, but 4K still better nonetheless) and right after, Canon announced a 4K 24 fps DSLR? That seems like much more a competition to the Scarlet rather than the C300. What do you think?
 
hard to say, but they seem to be more worried about their investors than their customers. canon did make their announcement before red, and that was what they had been planning for quite awhile on. red picked nov. 3rd after they did, just to stir the pot a little bit. it's possible they threw the 4k camera in because they knew they were getting publicity and wanted to make sure people knew they were working on it. and the c300 is priced competitively with scarlet, i'd say the 4k camera will not be. who knows, canon could still get their act together...
 
Oh, do you think Canon's 4k dslr will be more or less than the Scarlet?
 
paulherrin said:
i'd say the 4k camera will not be. who knows, canon could still get their act together...
Click to expand...

I'd say by the time Canon actually releases a 4k camera it'll be competitively priced... for Scarlet. The 1D can handle 14fps today. Give it 18 months and 30 fps for a 1D should be expected. The C300 is pretty small. And while it doesn't ahve a jp2k compression chip in it... it does handle 4k images in real-time. So they've already demonstrated they *could* have delivered a 4k camera for a similar price point to the C300. They just didn't.
 
McKay Olson said:
I know this is a Red Forum, but on November 3rd, why did Canon announce the C300 next to the Scarlet when the Scarlet can shoot 5K (4K 24 fps) while the C300 can only shoot 1080p (good 1080p, but 4K still better nonetheless) and right after, Canon announced a 4K 24 fps DSLR? That seems like much more a competition to the Scarlet rather than the C300. What do you think?
Click to expand...

Higher resolution does not equal "better picture", just like a poorly taken Raw photo can be far worse than a properly shot .JPG
Depends greatly on what the shot calls for and the camera operator...

Also, the Canon 4K DSLR prototype is not a real camera yet, but it's specs offers something no current shipping camera does:
FF 4K resolution. Not even the Epic, Sony or Phantom does that...

Canon C300 is extremely impressive for how it supposedly does well in low light, but not for everything-
main drawbacks mainly lower resolution and limited framerates.

I can see many people renting them side-by-side with Alexa, Epic and Phantom...
 
I believe Canon mentioned their 4k DSLR that may or may not eventually come out will shoot 4k motion in JPEG format. That probably means 8bit 4:2:0, not raw, image sequences (slower file transfers and wasted file system space)... Interesting idea, but not that exciting compared to 16bit raw bayer wavelet compressed.
 
I do not understand the reason to continue making DSLRs that shoot better video. Surely it makes more sense to build cameras that are designed for motion from the ground up... Well maybe Canon is banking on DSMC and approaching it from the opposite direction as RED hehe
 
The Canon 4K DSLR just obsoleted both the 1Dx and C300. Not sure why they would announce that camera now.

Jim
 
Jannard said:
The Canon 4K DSLR just obsoleted both the 1Dx and C300. Not sure why they would announce that camera now.

Jim
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I was thinking the same thing... announcing a 4k DSLR, with better resolution, and one would assume cheaper being a DSLR, than their new "cinema camera" seems to me like shooting oneself in the foot

Keep up the good work jim!
 
Jannard said:
The Canon 4K DSLR just obsoleted both the 1Dx and C300. Not sure why they would announce that camera now.
Click to expand...
I agree. It could potentially turn into a little bit of the Osbourne Effect.

Canon is a hard company to understand, sometimes.
 
Jannard said:
The Canon 4K DSLR just obsoleted both the 1Dx and C300. Not sure why they would announce that camera now.

Jim
Click to expand...

Didn't you announce a FF35 Scarlet 3 years ago? ;)

I doubt you lost any RED One sales to it.
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
Didn't you announce a FF35 Scarlet 3 years ago? ;)

I doubt you lost any RED One sales to it.
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I see your point but it's sort of comparing apples to oranges as the FF35 doesn't really target the same market as the Scarlet-X. That's like saying I'm not going to buy an Epic-X because they announced an Epic 617 that does 28K. Sure it's higher resolution, but it's also a different sensor size that I can't really use.
 
This "C" camera announcement was just last-minute panic reaction to RED Scarlett. They do not have ANY of prototypes of such thing - 4K video DSLR. Almost scam. Maybe in 2-3 years from now they could potentially release exceptional 3K or even 2K camera with built-in PRORES quicktime 422 capability :) or something like that. Imagine where RED could possibly get to that time. 8K? 5K HDRX 300FPS? Canon making money selling printers and pocket cameras below $300. They really good at that. Who else could really build a potential low-cost alternative to RED cameras - SONY and maybe NIKON (video features on their latest DSLR cameras looks really promising). And I can easily imagine some kind of NEX FS-200 with 12-14 F-stops range and 3200 native ISO, maybe 120FPS but still only 1080P resolution in 2013. But Sony will never release any beyond 1080 camera cheaper than $100000. Canon totally lose the track with releasing LOWER megapixels 1D X, with NOT releasing any successor to 5D markII, and with EPIC :) fail of trying to sell all manual EOS 300C truncated video DSLR for $20000.
 
Jake Bastian said:
I see your point but it's sort of comparing apples to oranges as the FF35 doesn't really target the same market as the Scarlet-X. That's like saying I'm not going to buy an Epic-X because they announced an Epic 617 that does 28K. Sure it's higher resolution, but it's also a different sensor size that I can't really use.
Click to expand...

I had no intent of purchasing a S35 Scarlet until it became clear that the FF35 wasn't happening any time soon. A 3k for $3k tagline built a community and customer base for a $10k 4k camera. Seeding interest can convince people to pay attention to your product line. We assume there'll be a 1Dx replacement that will make the existing offerings obsolete down the road.

Canon's strategy seems to be sumarized as "You aren't ready for 4k, but when you are, we'll be there." That's why they announced a 4k camera. They have to establish that their existing products are being released by a company who is aware of cutting edge developments and user needs. If they hadn't given any lip service to future 4k offerings then people would start to wonder if the existing offerings were really cutting edge.

People already murmur that Canon is out of touch with the current competitive landscape. If they seemed oblivious to near term future trends then we would assume that level of cluelessness went into the C300 and 1DX as well. Personally I think 4:2:2 is already proof of that but...
 
Think about all of this from a business perspective, if Canon released a 4k FF RAW Cine camera at an attractive price, then that would kill pretty much most of their product lines
that's why even the c300 still uses MPEG 4:2:2 compression at 1080p.
The only way for them to build such a cine camera is to start from the ground up. sorry, but what the hell are they thinking?
 
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