Thread: new HELIUM owner: 1280 ISO?

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  1. #1 new HELIUM owner: 1280 ISO? 
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    I saw a RED Tech video where he suggest to use 1280 ISO on the Helium, why??
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member Mark A. Jaeger's Avatar
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    I made the tutorial in the link below. I think ISO on RED may be the #1 misunderstood parameter. Maybe the tutorial will help your understanding or, possibly, provide an answer..

    https://youtu.be/x1uAMYq7yQk
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  3. #3  
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    Why not?

    Depending on the OLPF, that should be usable and it’ll give you a more even over/under exposure (ISOCal2 1600 is when it gets even, or much closer anyway).
    Last edited by Mike P.; 02-11-2021 at 11:25 AM.
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  4. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark A. Jaeger View Post
    I made the tutorial in the link below. I think ISO on RED may be the #1 misunderstood parameter. Maybe the tutorial will help your understanding or, possibly, provide an answer..

    https://youtu.be/x1uAMYq7yQk

    thanks Mark! I know your videos (just subscribed!) but on this RED TECH video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyG456rKSws&t=83s that guy talk about the ISO 1280 for Helium!
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  5. #5  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Hi Roberto,

    Remember RED provides a recommended ISO Range, for many years that's been ISO 250-3200.

    They also provide their suggested Base ISO, generally a good starting spot, of ISO 800.

    Some people role with 800 and never touch it. But depending on your needs and desires particularly when it comes to image noise as well as where tonality lands above and below middle gray you may want adjust your ISO.

    I made a simple graphic here:
    http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthr...-Below-18-Gray


    I can confirm many DPs over the years have used various ISO ratings on films, series, commercials, etc. From visits to set, rental houses, and conversations that seems to be mostly between ISO 320-1600 over the years. Some higher and even lower than that, but I'd say safely that's where most people find their ISO rating for whatever they are doing.

    And a personal take, depending on what I'm doing I mainly float between ISO 400 to 1600. 800 being my most commonly used ISO for sure across various cameras.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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  6. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    Hi Roberto,

    Remember RED provides a recommended ISO Range, for many years that's been ISO 250-3200.

    They also provide their suggested Base ISO, generally a good starting spot, of ISO 800.

    Some people role with 800 and never touch it. But depending on your needs and desires particularly when it comes to image noise as well as where tonality lands above and below middle gray you may want adjust your ISO.

    I made a simple graphic here:
    http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthr...-Below-18-Gray


    I can confirm many DPs over the years have used various ISO ratings on films, series, commercials, etc. From visits to set, rental houses, and conversations that seems to be mostly between ISO 320-1600 over the years. Some higher and even lower than that, but I'd say safely that's where most people find their ISO rating for whatever they are doing.

    And a personal take, depending on what I'm doing I mainly float between ISO 400 to 1600. 800 being my most commonly used ISO for sure across various cameras.
    Thanks Phil! Your descriptions/suggestions are always well accepted..good to know, i will continue to use 800 or 1600, but i prefer to lower the ISO in low light! Thanks!!
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  7. #7  
    My advice when using helium. Never overexpose. Make sure you have atleast a stop of highlight protection. Check your stoplights, learn how they work and always make sure you are a stop below them. If doing so then helium renders great results.
    Björn Benckert
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  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    Hi Roberto,

    Remember RED provides a recommended ISO Range, for many years that's been ISO 250-3200. [...]
    Umm...For many years RED's ISO claims were bunk. With IPP2, RED cleaned that up by recalibrating its ISO scale (!?) so that old ISO 800 is new ISO 400.

    What does this mean? It means that the old recommendation that you "could" get clean results at ISO 3200 now means you get the same passable results at ISO 1600. And it means that when you want to shoot clean, the old ISO 800 recommendation becomes ISO 400.

    Of course for creative and other reasons, anybody is free to read the rulebook and then throw it away. But the fact that RED had to change their ISO calibration to avoid poisoning so many shoots with so much unnecessary shadow noise is reason alone to NOT cite history as a guide for ISO recommendations. Other then as a cautionary tale.

    ISO 1280 is fine, as long as you test it in your environment. As you should with any camera and lighting setup.
    Michael Tiemann, Chapel Hill NC

    "Dream so big you can share!"
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  9. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Björn Benckert View Post
    My advice when using helium. Never overexpose. Make sure you have atleast a stop of highlight protection. Check your stoplights, learn how they work and always make sure you are a stop below them. If doing so then helium renders great results.
    To Björn's point, I find it's typically easier to set the ISO a stop over (or at least 1280 like the RedTech mentioned) and use histo/false colour to maintain exposure consistency (since that has the metadata/ISO applied). The compromise with this approach is that you're kinda locking yourself in, since you can't boost it any more in post without introducing more noise. (Anecdotally, I've always thought Helium's highlights were "weaker" than Dragon's, so whenever I've shot with it I tended to protect the highs a little more and leverage the added cleanliness of the downscale.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tiemann View Post
    Umm...For many years RED's ISO claims were bunk. With IPP2, RED cleaned that up by recalibrating its ISO scale (!?) so that old ISO 800 is new ISO 400.

    What does this mean? It means that the old recommendation that you "could" get clean results at ISO 3200 now means you get the same passable results at ISO 1600. And it means that when you want to shoot clean, the old ISO 800 recommendation becomes ISO 400.

    Of course for creative and other reasons, anybody is free to read the rulebook and then throw it away. But the fact that RED had to change their ISO calibration to avoid poisoning so many shoots with so much unnecessary shadow noise is reason alone to NOT cite history as a guide for ISO recommendations. Other then as a cautionary tale.
    That they more or less denied it for years/~6x product cycles (R1>MX>DSMC>Dragon>Weapon/Raven/Scarlet-W) and never bother rectifying it with legacy products, is why this is still a problem. Throw in different OLPFs that drastically change the useably clean ISO range and it's kinda understandable why people who don't own REDs (and/or frequent RU) opt for the simplicity of Arri/Sony/other cameras... But I digress.
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  10. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark A. Jaeger View Post
    I made the tutorial in the link below. I think ISO on RED may be the #1 misunderstood parameter. Maybe the tutorial will help your understanding or, possibly, provide an answer..

    https://youtu.be/x1uAMYq7yQk
    Nice tutorial.
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