Thread: Komodo roadmap + updates

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  1. #1 Komodo roadmap + updates 
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    Hi foks,
    My place in the Komodo pre-order queue here in Australia is nearly up and it's exciting times. I've notice lately though that any kind of communication from RED has disappeared. Lots of companies choose to do business this way (BMD for example) but compared to how much we were kept in the loop its quite a change. Is this simply new policy?

    I have a few questions that I'd love to get some clarity on before I accept my order, I understand if this isn't possible.

    1. Most importantly for me, will intermediate frame rate options be expanded upon and is there any chance of 6k50 being added? I don't need anything faster but for my use case, 6k50 is pretty crucial. I don't want to crop the sensor. I've read most of the information on the Komodo not being able to give much more gassed, mostly answering people requesting 4k120, however 6k50 isn't too far off what's available so I thought I'd ask.

    2. What the future of phone integration? I saw a cradle picture once but it seems to be radio silence.

    3. EF centrepoint PDAF looks pretty good, any chance of tracking coming in a firmware update?

    If these can't be answered fair enough, but it would be good to know whether REDs policy is now "we don't talk about it" or whether it's just cooled down on the Komodo front for a while. I know DSMC3 is coming and they have moved factory AND 2020 was a hard year so I understand if things aren't where they expected.
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    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Don't know some of these answers, but I think it's safe to say the FPS at 6K 17:9 is what the sensor and camera allows. There hasn't been any hint otherwise and generally any camera on the market doesn't magically gain many FPS.

    RED Control wireless and wired app control (Link) is current phone integration. Free in the Apple IOS App Store and Google Play Store. Pretty snazzy if you haven't checked it out. Wireless video and camera control is kind of wonderful when you need it. Not to mention you can do this via WiFi over IP as well. I'm certain RED Control will be updated with more features down the line. I was a little surprised that I could fully customize my app layout. Pretty awesome when your camera is in a weird spot.

    Don't know about smart object tracking for AF, but we also know it's early days there too.

    To answer the broader question, RED in general releases firmware updates during the lifespan of a camera line to add features that have been requested, fix bugs, speed things up like boot time, etc. This has been true with DSMC, DSMC2, and even Komodo so far.

    There's a few threads about feature requests that are worth diving into, but hardware related stuff obviously can't be updated via firmware. But anything software related is likely stuff worth looking into and suggesting.

    RED certainly has been a bit more tight lipped compared to say the beginning when they would show an entire camera lineup and strategy, but I'd presume that's a sign of the times with the market the way it is these days.
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  3. #3  
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    Thanks Phil I really appreciate the in depth answer. Bit of a shame for my use case but it's certainly a great camera for lots of people and I believe that is being reflected in some pretty lengthy backorder lists.It's good to know that the boot time is something that can improve as 23s is still a bit longer than I'd prefer but I know I lot is going on in that tiny box.
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    Senior Member Christoffer Glans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post

    RED certainly has been a bit more tight lipped compared to say the beginning when they would show an entire camera lineup and strategy, but I'd presume that's a sign of the times with the market the way it is these days.
    I think this is a problem because it's hard to know how to build a camera setup. Like, if there's a dedicated monitor coming that we don't know about and then you buy another monitor. It would be nice to at least get some info on a roadmap. Right now it seems like Red has gone full-blown Arri and there's no communication in here at all. Feels like a desert or post-apocalyptic forum with Redusers fighting over scraps of info and "maybe's" about the future.

    I'd like to know if we'll get some kind of EXT power out to be able to drive some remote follow focus. That's nothing major, it's just a cable. Because I'm trying to fix the power problem of not having enough juice to drive a regular follow focus motor without going back to V-lock solutions. If we can squeeze as much power as possible out of the EXT connector to drive a motor, that can define just how small a camera build can be. It's just a cable and it could make a huge difference for shoots. We don't even get the info if this is possible or not? What systems might work with it etc.

    I don't know why Red went into silent mode, maybe they're flooded by thousands of Komodo user's irrational requests and "reviews" that they just gave up on the community. I kinda warned about this happening since the price point would open the flood gate to a lot of people who never even touched a cinema camera, let alone a Red. The Facebook group is a damn mess in this regard, hundreds if not thousands of posts that repeat the same shit over and over, mostly about wanting more FPS and that "it looks so noisy", ugh....

    If we at least got some hints or a framework of what's to come, we could plan our gear in a better way. Maybe it's so early the coming firmware has things they don't know yet if it's possible, but for now, I just want a cable to power some remote follow focus system.
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    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Fairly tuned into the boards, FB groups, and other worlds of camera discussion Christoffer and I think it's a lot of people asking questions that have been asked before. One of the reasons I made various FAQS for Komodo early on was because it's such a new camera platform and I was getting asked sometimes a dozen times a day similar questions, that's usually when it's time for me to make a post I can just forward a link along to.

    I don't think that's a bad thing, I think Komodo just inspires new questions because it's a new platform rather than a mature one people are familiar.

    But an example from this morning once again is I see asked if Komodo's top pogo pins can power a display, which it can't and similarly there's not enough juice out of the EXT out. We've known this since last May/June and it's been asked a bunch of times. Generally it's not a power problem from my perspective, but pretty much a lot of cameras designed to be small and power efficient you deploy on body power distribution which we even do for larger cameras. If you search through my thread that's many of the reasons you saw me focusing on V-Mount adapters and plates as that's a fairly standard way to get a bigger battery on there as well as having the D-Taps and AUX power to feed various accessories.

    I truly don't think any manufacturer is really going to be as open to discuss future camera developments and such at this point. Applies to accessory manufacturers in my mind as well. Perhaps a hint or a tease, but roadmaps and major future product stuff is going to be far more secretive. Answering questions about gear that's already out however, that I think all in bounds and perhaps more can be done. RED has a Komodo FAQ on their site answering some questions, but certainly not all the questions ever getting asked. As such we have a community here and outside of RU to answer those things because some of the answers are more obvious to others than not depending on levels of familiarity I imagine.

    To answer the actual question, a V-Mount, G-Mount, or even BP w/ D-Tap is the solution you are looking for to power a motor.

    The diagram published here:
    https://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...or-Pin-Diagram

    Back in February 2020 tells you everything you can get out of that port. And there is 5 volt 500mA available, but that's not what would drive many motors, you most of the time need 12 volts as a baseline starting point with other variables adding to how much of a draw from there.
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  6. #6  
    Senior Member Christoffer Glans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    One of the reasons I made various FAQS for Komodo early on was because it's such a new camera platform and I was getting asked sometimes a dozen times a day similar questions, that's usually when it's time for me to make a post I can just forward a link along to.
    These people don't read FAQs, they don't even go to the official red.com support pages. They don't even read answers to the same questions they ask, just directly underneath their own questions. It just becomes noise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    But an example from this morning once again is I see asked if Komodo's top pogo pins can power a display, which it can't and similarly there's not enough juice out of the EXT out. We've known this since last May/June and it's been asked a bunch of times. Generally it's not a power problem from my perspective, but pretty much a lot of cameras designed to be small and power efficient you deploy on body power distribution which we even do for larger cameras. If you search through my thread that's many of the reasons you saw me focusing on V-Mount adapters and plates as that's a fairly standard way to get a bigger battery on there as well as having the D-Taps and AUX power to feed various accessories.
    Depends on the design of the monitors. Energy-efficient monitor technology can make up for a lower power out. There's a difference between trying to power a regular display on the market and something Red designed from the ground up specifically for Komodo. I mean, we've had monitors for DSMC2s for years that can only be used on those cameras and we have display tech today that doesn't draw as much power as earlier products. The question is if Red is even looking into it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    I truly don't think any manufacturer is really going to be as open to discuss future camera developments and such at this point. Applies to accessory manufacturers in my mind as well. Perhaps a hint or a tease, but roadmaps and major future product stuff is going to be far more secretive. Answering questions about gear that's already out however, that I think all in bounds and perhaps more can be done. RED has a Komodo FAQ on their site answering some questions, but certainly not all the questions ever getting asked. As such we have a community here and outside of RU to answer those things because some of the answers are more obvious to others than not depending on levels of familiarity I imagine.
    I'm talking about Red here. We've had years of open communication that seems to be totally silent after the release of Komodo. There's almost no feedback from Red in any thread for Komodo. It's uncharacteristic of a company that took pride in community feedback and discussion. Red was never Arri, Canon or Sony, they have this very forum for this reason. If there are problems with backorders, chaos due to the pandemic etc. sure I understand, but there are no posts made pointing to this either, just blank. Usually, when Red released a new system, there's been a lot of communication so people could get to know the system well, but for some reason, all users of Komodo are left to just try to figure out things themselves and through other users. I just find the silence weird compared to how things been in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    To answer the actual question, a V-Mount, G-Mount, or even BP w/ D-Tap is the solution you are looking for to power a motor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    Back in February 2020 tells you everything you can get out of that port. And there is 5 volt 500mA available, but that's not what would drive many motors, you most of the time need 12 volts as a baseline starting point with other variables adding to how much of a draw from there.
    Trying to solve this without V-mount as I'm keeping the camera as lightweight as possible. There are motors capable of using less power, the RS2 focus motor is pretty weak but can drive my CN-Es anyway and gets all its power from a regular USB-C. Problem with that is that DJI doesn't have any way to use that off gimbal. And the problem on top of this is that there's no cable that can be used to draw power from the EXT connector on the Komodo. Where are the cables that support power draw from that connector? There are no cables like that in the Red store or anywhere.

    I know that I can't get 12v out of a port that maxes out at 5v, but there aren't even cables that give me 5v capabilities out that can be used with focus motors that use that as their minimum.

    The goal for me is to build the smallest and most lightweight camera possible that can still be used in a regular small team of one focus puller and one sound operator. And be able to move between a RS2, tripod, hand rig and hand held, without re-building the camera between setups. This would require a focus motor that can draw power at maximum 5v, a cable that works like that from Komodo, and a baseplate system that probably would be based around a Manfrotto plate to be able to move from gimbal to tripods, but still have 15mm rods for the focus motor that won't be removed.

    Without any feedback on ideas, questions about cables etc. I can't do much than wait for Red to start talking. The diagram only shows what the EXT connector can do, but as far as I know, we have no cables for it that can utilize the 5v output.
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  7. #7  
    Senior Member Robert Hofmeyr's Avatar
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    Christoffer, will the link adapter not give you 5V power?

    I too wish Red had not stopped communicating. The cradle mentioned in the first post is a good example: is it still happening, or must we buy the link adapter and phone holder? It would be great to know before spending $395 on the adapter.
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  8. #8  
    Senior Member Christoffer Glans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Hofmeyr View Post
    Christoffer, will the link adapter not give you 5V power?

    I too wish Red had not stopped communicating. The cradle mentioned in the first post is a good example: is it still happening, or must we buy the link adapter and phone holder? It would be great to know before spending $395 on the adapter.
    I don't know, maybe, but then you lose the ability to use a monitor through the Link. Sure, if using another dedicated SDI monitor it might work, but there's no confirmation that it would work. Also, I think I mentioned before that if Komodo Link could drive a motor through USB-C, like the RS2 does, then it could be made to work with the AF system in camera but for cine lenses. But nothing is confirmed hinted or answered about any of this.
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  9. #9  
    Senior Member Robert Hofmeyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christoffer Glans View Post
    I don't know, maybe, but then you lose the ability to use a monitor through the Link. Sure, if using another dedicated SDI monitor it might work, but there's no confirmation that it would work. Also, I think I mentioned before that if Komodo Link could drive a motor through USB-C, like the RS2 does, then it could be made to work with the AF system in camera but for cine lenses. But nothing is confirmed hinted or answered about any of this.
    Perhaps add a USB-C splitter so you can use the monitor and power the motor?

    Edit: I have no idea if this will work.
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  10. #10  
    Senior Member Christoffer Glans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Hofmeyr View Post
    Perhaps add a USB-C splitter so you can use the monitor and power the motor?

    Edit: I have no idea if this will work.
    You and me both, which is why I wish Red, Jarred or anyone would chime in on ideas like these. I cannot choose a follow focus system without knowing what route to take. If it's absolutely impossible to get an onboard focus motor to work without needing V-lock batteries, then I'll know, but so far I can only guess and hope the answers will come.
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