Thread: The Queen’s Gambit - Steven Meizler FDTimes Interview

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  1. #21  
    Senior Member Aaron Green's Avatar
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    This has probably been referenced, but it's a good resource on seeing the similarities/difference you can achieve with the Alexa LF vs Mini.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwgkXcUX984
    The whole discussion goes a bit over my head but it seems like the only absolute advantage you would gain with a larger sensor (assuming you had access to every lens) is spatial. In other words if you have to get a specific look that required more room to back up but a wall is preventing you from moving back further. I'm sure that's way oversimplifying it but, hey.
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  2. #22  
    Senior Member Jacek Zakowicz's Avatar
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    Not sure I saw this one but Panavision made one a while back and that was debunked...
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  3. #23  
    Senior Member Steve Sherrick's Avatar
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    Steve Yedlin pretty much sums up everything here.
    https://www.yedlin.net/NerdyFilmTech...nceptions.html

    And another interesting read here
    https://www.yedlin.net/NerdyFilmTech...hLensBlur.html
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  4. #24  
    https://vimeo.com/152514220

    Are you saying you could get this shot with an 18mm lens?
    I think perspective distortion is what Meizler is talking about; a 28/35mm will be much more neutral than an 18mm (or, at the other extreme, 2000mm).
    Nils J. Nesse

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  5. #25  
    Senior Member Aaron Green's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nils J. Nesse View Post
    https://vimeo.com/152514220

    Are you saying you could get this shot with an 18mm lens?
    I think perspective distortion is what Meizler is talking about; a 28/35mm will be much more neutral than an 18mm (or, at the other extreme, 2000mm).
    I don’t think anyone would make that claim. It’s more about the gap from S35 to FF, 18mm vs 25mm. Or 50mm vs 65mm, etc.
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  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Green View Post
    I don’t think anyone would make that claim. It’s more about the gap from S35 to FF, 18mm vs 25mm. Or 50mm vs 65mm, etc.
    Yes, and I think the difference between 18 and 25 can often be the difference between "visibly distorted"/"exaggerated perspective" and something that looks neutral/undistorted.

    Most of the time (depending on the project) I avoid going wider than 21mm for this reason.
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  7. #27  
    Senior Member Jacek Zakowicz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nils J. Nesse View Post
    https://vimeo.com/152514220

    Are you saying you could get this shot with an 18mm lens?
    I think perspective distortion is what Meizler is talking about; a 28/35mm will be much more neutral than an 18mm (or, at the other extreme, 2000mm).
    Again- there is no such a thing as long as the field of view and object distance are identical. It's been proven multiple times with identical frames from FF, S35, S16 and nobody could tell the difference
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  8. #28  
    Senior Member Michael Hastings's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacek Zakowicz View Post
    Again- there is no such a thing as long as the field of view and object distance are identical. It's been proven multiple times with identical frames from FF, S35, S16 and nobody could tell the difference
    Something about optical stuff seems to be very befuddling. I have explained how a dome port works underwater literally thousands of times and numerous times to the same individual - even though it isn't all that complicated.

    I think the confusion usually is that people aren't really thinking clearly about field of view vs focal length. Focal length doesn't change with sensor size - a 10mm is a 10mm but the angle of view will be different on different sensor sizes and the size of the image at the sensor may be different for different lenses and will generally require larger physical sizes for larger sensors. For example a 10mm F1.8 lens for a 1/2" sensor camera might be 1" long and 1" wide while a 10mm F1.8/T2.1 10mm ultraprime designed for S35 is about 6" long and 6" wide.

    Generally wide lenses are harder to make without various distortions (forget about perspective distortion for a minute) for a fairly simple reason - wide lenses have light rays coming from far off axis angles and a 3D world through a bunch of curved lenses trying to focus on a flat sensor - telephoto lenses have light rays that are all coming almost straight in so not as hard to map to a flat sensor.

    Those type of distortions (barrel, pincushion etc.) are "real" distortions i.e. "faults" of the lens design being unable to perfectly remap the world to a flat sensor - some lenses do it better than others. Perspective "distortion" isn't a fault - in other words a cheap 10mm lens on S35 will have the same Perspective "distortion" as a 10mm Master Prime on S35.
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  9. #29  
    Senior Member Karim D. Ghantous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacek Zakowicz View Post
    That just shows his incompetence in this aspect.
    I know you apologised, but let's play the ball, not the man, eh? :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by Christoffer Glans View Post
    And the Queens Gambit is a show with a lot of wide angles, which could absolutely mean that distortions are visible trying to achieve the same wide FOV on s35 setups.
    This is not scientifically correct. There are differences between lenses, like resolution, CA, etc. But Meizler was referring to something that does not exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Morrison View Post
    So yes the larger format makes a BIG difference. A 28mm or 35mm at 1.4 will have way shallower DOF and less distortion up close than an 18mm 1.4 Super Speed, which was literally his point and makes total sense.
    It doesn't make sense because it's false. DOF is certainly reduced in the larger format, in the example you gave, and that is objectively, scientifically correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Morrison View Post
    However, having the extra K's is a separate advantage. Ie being able to re-frame in post is a major advantage that those K's gives you. This ability to reframe is a major part of many Hollywood workflows. David Fincher is a major proponent for example (he's uses some of that resolution to stabilize). And on the Star Wars franchise (that Yedlin worked on), all of those projects are shot with lots of Ks for VFX, etc.

    So yes the K's don't matter. But sometimes they do.
    This is absolutely wise. Just because you have a 4K camera doesn't mean you don't care about the story. In any case, the DP does not write the screenplay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacek Zakowicz View Post
    He was not talking about the depth of field in extreme cases razor thin DOF. Stay on topic please. It is rarely done for a reason- keeping the subject in focus is extremely difficult and it is really counter intuitive to general shooting rules..
    Yes, I was a little surprised at this choice. Not one that I would ever make. When I was younger I wanted a Noctilux. Nowadays, if you gave me one I would sell it and buy something more useful and cheaper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Green View Post
    The whole discussion goes a bit over my head but it seems like the only absolute advantage you would gain with a larger sensor (assuming you had access to every lens) is spatial. In other words if you have to get a specific look that required more room to back up but a wall is preventing you from moving back further. I'm sure that's way oversimplifying it but, hey.
    This is not correct at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nils J. Nesse View Post

    I think perspective distortion is what Meizler is talking about; a 28/35mm will be much more neutral than an 18mm (or, at the other extreme, 2000mm).
    No, it won't. ;-)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nils J. Nesse View Post
    Yes, and I think the difference between 18 and 25 can often be the difference between "visibly distorted"/"exaggerated perspective" and something that looks neutral/undistorted.
    Not correct, my friend.

    I am not an expert in optics either, but I know what I know and I know what I don't know. I also don't always know what I don't know. But as far as this issue is concerned, I do have the correct information. I don't need to prove it because smarter men than I have already done so, multiple, multiple times.
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  10. #30  
    Senior Member Aaron Green's Avatar
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    Do these not look comparable?

    https://imgur.com/a/7F2iVTs

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