Thread: The SDI issues

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  1. #181  
    Quote Originally Posted by Christoffer Glans View Post
    I still think that we need a native monitor from Red. Something we can use that doesn't rely on the SDI port. The biggest problem we have right now is that SDI is the ONLY way to monitor with any high quality.
    I think it's important to note that this isn't a RED specific issue, it's all current SDI cams. I just sent my Ursa G2 in because I somehow fried both my 12G and 3G ports within 2 weeks of each other. The 12G I figured might have been my fault but was playing it pretty safe with the second port after reading up on the issue. I'm just tempted to revert back to powering my monitor with Sony batts.
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  2. #182  
    Senior Member Nick Morrison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Szczesniak View Post
    I think it's important to note that this isn't a RED specific issue, it's all current SDI cams. I just sent my Ursa G2 in because I somehow fried both my 12G and 3G ports within 2 weeks of each other. The 12G I figured might have been my fault but was playing it pretty safe with the second port after reading up on the issue. I'm just tempted to revert back to powering my monitor with Sony batts.
    Interesting to hear its happening on Blackmagic cameras. I wasn't sure if that was the case.
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  3. #183  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Morrison View Post
    Interesting to hear its happening on Blackmagic cameras. I wasn't sure if that was the case.
    It's happening on all 12G cameras, for sure. Here's a review from B&H's listing of the Canon C300 mk iii:

    After 2 shoots dead SDI, Canon repair didn't fix
    By Christian 4/24/21
    B&H Community Member

    I've owned every C-series canon since the original C300, including the C100, C200, etc, and one of my favorite things has always been the robustness and reliability. However, after just 2 shoots on my newest C300iii both the HDMI and SDI died on the camera. I called Canon service - they said "yes that sounds like a burned out SDI card needs to be serviced" and instruct me to send it in. A few weeks later I get the camera back. They fixed one of the SDI ports. The other SDI still doesn't work and the HDMI still doesn't work. I called Canon service again. This time they didn't respond to my emails or messages. It's been a month and I've tried getting in touch to repair the persisting issue, but I've just been passed around by different "service people" and no one wants to listen or take the blame. B&H has also been no help. Even tho the camera is just a couple months old, I'm now stuck with a lemon. I spoke with another friend who owns the C300mkiii and his SDI ports also broke after minimal use. I suspect Canon has a bad batch of these going around and doesn't want to recall them. I do not recommend this camera.
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  4. #184  
    Senior Member Christoffer Glans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Szczesniak View Post
    I think it's important to note that this isn't a RED specific issue, it's all current SDI cams. I just sent my Ursa G2 in because I somehow fried both my 12G and 3G ports within 2 weeks of each other. The 12G I figured might have been my fault but was playing it pretty safe with the second port after reading up on the issue. I'm just tempted to revert back to powering my monitor with Sony batts.
    It's a bit irrelevant actually. The fact is we have only one built-in SDI port and therefore we have these issues in this way. We had SDI ports on DSMC2, but they're on a module, easily replaceable compared to this. So it doesn't really matter that it's a known fact that SDIs are trouble. By choosing to go with this design, we ended up here.

    So, I much prefer a solution than just accepting that the camera supposed to be a tank is built out of crystal glass. Red is in a position, not only to sell more gear towards Komodo users, but also to help out solving the risks we face. I cannot rent out this camera without a huge risk that the whole SDI-monitor setup gets busted. This is a problem and needs to be adressed in some way. Getting tired of Red's silence and seemingly lack of follow-up to things like these. Everything is at a stand-still for investment options and support only quote what's on the Red website guide about SDI procedures, without any further details or deep dives.

    What's the point of this community if Red's ended any type of feedback on topics like these? As has been said before, by more people than me, it looks like Red shifted focused and abandoned this forum.
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  5. #185  
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Morrison View Post
    Interesting to hear its happening on Blackmagic cameras. I wasn't sure if that was the case.


    Without being a nerd and digging through forums I never would have known, it wasn't readily apparent. Used the camera for 2 solid years without knowing anything other than now where it's apparent *NOBODY* practices Safe SDI on set with P-Tap! $370 mistake and Ursaless for 2ish weeks. Should be back in time to flip and pay for my Komodo :)


    As for what RED owes Komodo owners...I can't say. No one else has piped up about it even really being a thing, outside of 1 Arri paper...
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  6. #186  
    Is it certain that the entire problem is this "power surge" described by ARRI and it is caused by improperly grounded SDI cables and/or DC current to ground from connection sequence? In checking the formal specifications for various cable connectors, it appears that for all other types of connectors (e.g. 3.1 USB, HDMI, DVI) there is a requirement for protection from ESD (electrostatic discharge ... the spark you see when you touch a grounded metal object on a cold dry day) ... In fact, Texas Instruments makes a series of "circuit protection ICs" used to protect circuits with these types of connectors. They are even incorporated into the SD cards we use. Curiously, they make no such device for SDI connection circuits (https://www.ti.com/interface/circuit...interface.html) and in checking their technical papers, there are technical hurdles to making them for SDI related to introducing parasitic currents that exceed certain specifications for SDI. If this is the problem (or a component of it) 12G SDI connection circuits are naked and there is no easy solution. The only choice will be to continue with the kluge solutions currently prescribed but it will help if you touch a grounded metal object before making power or SDI connections (that's why computer techs wear grounding straps). Cinegears specifies that their wireless transmitters do provide ESD protection but I have yet to receive and answer to a request for more details. Teradek does not list ESD protection in their specifications. RED, please comment.
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  7. #187  
    BY the way, IF ESD is the PRIMARY problem, it would explain all the previously described phenomena, including issues with broken shields on SDI cables, p/d tap connectors, etc.
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  8. #188  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathryn Rohr View Post
    BY the way, IF ESD is the PRIMARY problem, it would explain all the previously described phenomena, including issues with broken shields on SDI cables, p/d tap connectors, etc.
    YUP!

    One can lookup the design constraints for SDI. 3G operates at a low enough frequency("low" being a relative term) that the overall capacitance of the circuits are fairly easily protectable. 12G, on the other hand, operates at a very high frequency (4x 3G) . As a result, the capacitance of the circuitry, and the operating ON/OFF digital signal current must be so low that it becomes susceptible to damage from the ordinarily encountered inrush current when a battery is connected. The analogy is a garden hose where the spray nozzle is closed off. When one first opens the water supply valve, the hose pressurizes, even if there is very little water flow. The only flow is what's needed to stretch the hose. If there happens to be a weak spot in the hose, it will burst when the sudden pressure pulse exceeds the strength of the rubber, even if the hose didn't burst the last time it had an open nozzle. The ability of the rubber to stretch without bursting can be related to the capacitance of the circuit.

    The real solution, here, may be to provide a buffer circuit that prevents that sudden pressure pulse of current. That's what a blocking capacitor is supposed to do, but, at 12G frequencies, the required protection capacitance is way too small. So, it needs to be protected by circuitry that buffers ALL current pulses. The side effect on operation would well be a lag in SDI signal.
    Last edited by Bill Ravens; 05-19-2021 at 06:16 AM.
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  9. #189  
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    My biggest issue is rentals for Komodo. Once the camera is out of your hands - do we really expect a crew to memorize the power up/ down sequence for SDI and use only cables we provide? Never gonna happen. I rented out my Komodo and with all the SDI rules explained - the port came back fried. Not cool.
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  10. #190  
    Now that I am sufficiently worried about frying my video board, how do I know if my SDI cables are shielded? Most of the ones on B&H don't say one way or the other. Ive been using the thin ones from SmallHD for a few months and haven't had any problems, but could just be flirting with disaster. Anybody have any recommendations on quality cables? Obviously won't fix the problem, but seems like the obvious place to start.
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