Thread: The SDI issues

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  1. #31  
    At what point does RED jump in or get notified?
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  2. #32  
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    Page 141 in the latest operation manual for the Komodo states:

    WARNING: Always attach the power or batteries before attaching the SDI BNC cable. Always remove the SDI BNC
    cable before removing the power or batteries.

    Maybe that is the reason Red has not responded to this thread.
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  3. #33  
    Senior Member Robert Hofmeyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vance Colvig View Post
    Page 141 in the latest operation manual for the Komodo states:

    WARNING: Always attach the power or batteries before attaching the SDI BNC cable. Always remove the SDI BNC
    cable before removing the power or batteries.

    Maybe that is the reason Red has not responded to this thread.
    I think I and others are looking for a bit more clarity on this warning. Does it include dedicated monitor batteries, or just batteries that power the camera? Do we need to disconnect the SDI before changing a dead BP-9 on the back of the camera even if the second BP-9 is still running the camera?

    It seems to me this should only apply when connecting power to a monitor when that monitor is being powered by the camera or a battery connected to the camera. Otherwise I don't see how a circuit could be formed. But it would be nice to get some clarity from Red.
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  4. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Hofmeyr View Post
    I think I and others are looking for a bit more clarity on this warning. Does it include dedicated monitor batteries, or just batteries that power the camera? Do we need to disconnect the SDI before changing a dead BP-9 on the back of the camera even if the second BP-9 is still running the camera?

    It seems to me this should only apply when connecting power to a monitor when that monitor is being powered by the camera or a battery connected to the camera. Otherwise I don't see how a circuit could be formed. But it would be nice to get some clarity from Red.
    Thank you for phrasing the questions on people’s minds so eloquently! I for one also want clarity on these issues as the instructions from the manual which I’m following, make it “cumbersome” to work on set as every time a battery needs to be changed (whether on the camera or monitor - I’m talking BP-955s and Sony for the SMallHD ), I turn off the camera and monitor, disconnect the SDI, swap batteries, re-attach the SDI, then reboot camera and monitor. All the while the talent and client are standing around waiting for this process to complete.
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  5. #35  
    Senior Member Blair S. Paulsen's Avatar
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    Attaching any cable or battery with a voltage already present risks a spike at the moment of connection. Typically, this is dealt with by providing a safe, low resistance ground path (referred to as "earth" in the UK) so any spikes are harmlessly discharged. An SDI cable uses BNC connectors which are designed to completely isolate the signal on the center pin, with ground handled by the outer barrel. A shield/jacket running the length of the cable is intended to provide a near zero impedance route to ground. This has been working fine for decades.

    What changed? Unless it's been way under the radar, DSMC2 bodies do not have this issue. The 12g version of SDI does handle a higher data rate than 1.5 or 3g, but the ground facility - on a properly made cable with full integrity - should be roughly the same.

    Raw speculation alert: Does the larger body and heat sinks of the DSMC2 provide a better current dissipation capacity?

    What strikes me as a potential "fix" would be to only use battery plates with built in, short run batteries in the plate itself. Any spikes created when swapping power could be absorbed by a correctly specced "back up" battery. We used to use the small RedVolts in the side handle for live swapping rear bricks, avoiding reboots. IIRC, PAG and IDX both offer V mount plates with internal gel cells capable of 2-5 minutes of run time.

    I certainly don't claim to know exactly what's going on, or if my suggestion of a small battery in the mix would resolve it. That said, perhaps Ryan or some 3rd party could suss it out and, if practical, design a battery plate with a power interface able to, in the immortal words of Barney Fife "nip...it...in...the...bud".

    Cheers - #19
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  6. #36  
    Senior Member Robert Hofmeyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blair S. Paulsen View Post
    Attaching any cable or battery with a voltage already present risks a spike at the moment of connection.
    Hi Blair. I think the ground loop is formed when powering the monitor and camera from the same source. If you power the Komodo from a v-lock, then plug in a monitor via d-tap or 2 pin, the +ve could connect first, resulting in the BNC cable briefly completing the circuit. It could be more complicated than this. See this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFGgc8xUrvE. But I think separate power sources for monitor and camera will mitigate the problem (even if we don't disconnect the BNC when changing batteries). Would love confirmation on this though.

    I think the reason for the increased number of issues is not the smaller body of the Komodo. It is more likely the fact that a larger number of Komodo owners are powering their monitors via d-tap or 2 pin cables, combined with some issues with the BNC connector on the camera itself where the metal petals get bent apart resulting in a poor connection.
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  7. #37 Two birds 
    Senior Member Blair S. Paulsen's Avatar
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    Gotcha Robert. Your notes might answer my question about "what changed" between DSMC2 and Komodo.

    I still think there might be some interest in a power solution that included a short run battery that kept current flowing to camera and monitor while swapping bricks. Following a particular power up sequence once or twice a day is a manageable burden as long as there is no down time during shooting. Based on my experiences with using the RedVolts in the side handle as a reserve power source, it can be a real life saver when a brick goes down at the worst time.

    Cheers - #19
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  8. #38  
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    Our Komodo SDI failed on set today. The Komodo was powered via a Titon Micro on a Tilta Vlock plate and the SmallHD Focus Pro was powered by its own Sony LP. I have so far been unable to get the SDI output working again. Literally in the middle of a shoot. Unreal. Had to frame an interview on the postage stamp top screen. Hope its in focus.

    Is it done for? No chance of recovery? Does this mean we have to ship this thing in and wait? We ordered in November and received at the end of March. Weve used it on 4 sets and today it failed us after all those months of waiting.

    The working theory that this can only happen if the monitor and camera are being powered from the same source is disproven by my experience today.

    Pretty outraged by this if Im being honest. Our main camera is a Weapon 8K and weve never had an issue in the 4 years of ownership. No weird battery and SDI dances have ever been performed.

    Whats going on here?
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  9. #39  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R View Post
    Our Komodo SDI failed on set today. The Komodo was powered via a Titon Micro on a Tilta Vlock plate and the SmallHD Focus Pro was powered by its own Sony LP. I have so far been unable to get the SDI output working again. Literally in the middle of a shoot. Unreal. Had to frame an interview on the postage stamp top screen. Hope it’s in focus.

    Is it done for? No chance of recovery? Does this mean we have to ship this thing in and wait? We ordered in November and received at the end of March. We’ve used it on 4 sets and today it failed us after all those months of waiting.

    The working theory that this can only happen if the monitor and camera are being powered from the same source is disproven by my experience today.

    Pretty outraged by this if I’m being honest. Our main camera is a Weapon 8K and we’ve never had an issue in the 4 years of ownership. No weird battery and SDI dances have ever been performed.

    What’s going on here?
    Out of curiosity, how did it happen?
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  10. #40  
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    Because DSMC2 only has SDI via a module, maybe it's being grounded/dissipated by the connection to the brain (making it less likely; the +ve needs to travel through two physical connections before the -ve hits)? Also DSMC2 is only 3G SDI, which might make just enough of a dissipation/desensitize difference to prevent the port from burning out.

    Other than that, was it a shielded 12G SDI cable?
    Last edited by Mike P.; 04-16-2021 at 05:18 PM.
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