Thread: The SDI issues

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  1. #41  
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    BNC connectors are designed to be used only with shielded cables (co-ax).
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  2. #42  
    Senior Member Blair S. Paulsen's Avatar
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    Proper power shielding on precision electronics gear should be SOP. Props to Matt Allard with Newsshooter for pointing out that good old P-taps (or D-taps if you prefer) are made of plastic, which has limited shielding capacity. Perhaps that lack of shielding allows short spikes the chance to find their way to the SDI BNC port. If so, all the electrons need is a cable and/or connector with less than full integrity to get to ground. Is every SDI cable on your set in perfect condition? Yeah, right.

    FWIW, Matt found an interesting product that replaces a standard P-tap with one sporting a built in protection circuit. Details can be found in his write up on Newsshooter.

    https://www.newsshooter.com/2019/03/...nector-review/

    IAC, might be time to carefully inspect all my SDI cabling and replace any sketchy BNC connectors... One fun filled weekend coming up ;-)

    Cheers - #19

    PS: Long live 2 pin Fischer
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  3. #43  
    Senior Member Robert Hofmeyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R View Post
    Our Komodo SDI failed on set today. The Komodo was powered via a Titon Micro on a Tilta Vlock plate and the SmallHD Focus Pro was powered by its own Sony LP. I have so far been unable to get the SDI output working again. Literally in the middle of a shoot. Unreal. Had to frame an interview on the postage stamp top screen. Hope it’s in focus.

    Is it done for? No chance of recovery? Does this mean we have to ship this thing in and wait? We ordered in November and received at the end of March. We’ve used it on 4 sets and today it failed us after all those months of waiting.

    The working theory that this can only happen if the monitor and camera are being powered from the same source is disproven by my experience today.

    Pretty outraged by this if I’m being honest. Our main camera is a Weapon 8K and we’ve never had an issue in the 4 years of ownership. No weird battery and SDI dances have ever been performed.

    What’s going on here?
    That's bad news Michael. Thanks for letting us know. Hope you get it sorted asap. Do you know what was happening as the failure occurred? Was one of the batteries being swapped? Was the camera on?
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  4. #44  
    I got the vaxis komodo atom on my camera all the time. The way its seated with the v lock plate my sdi port is pretty much built in... I also tend to power the komodo worst way possible, dtap to that plate or even dtap and bypassing the plate straight to the connectors on the back of the vaxis...I by mistake fried a vaxis by giving it wrong polarity, but the camera did not go toast even though it was coming smoke out of the vaxis.

    So yes, will see how long it last I simply cant take the safety precausions that they advice in the manual.

    Who knows, there might be resons why red approved the vaxis TX and not the tilta power module.
    Björn Benckert
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  5. #45  
    Senior Member Christoffer Glans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R View Post
    Our Komodo SDI failed on set today. The Komodo was powered via a Titon Micro on a Tilta Vlock plate and the SmallHD Focus Pro was powered by its own Sony LP. I have so far been unable to get the SDI output working again. Literally in the middle of a shoot. Unreal. Had to frame an interview on the postage stamp top screen. Hope it’s in focus.

    Is it done for? No chance of recovery? Does this mean we have to ship this thing in and wait? We ordered in November and received at the end of March. We’ve used it on 4 sets and today it failed us after all those months of waiting.

    The working theory that this can only happen if the monitor and camera are being powered from the same source is disproven by my experience today.

    Pretty outraged by this if I’m being honest. Our main camera is a Weapon 8K and we’ve never had an issue in the 4 years of ownership. No weird battery and SDI dances have ever been performed.

    What’s going on here?
    Can Red please chime in on this conversation? There's like no actual feedback on any of these issues or questions and this forum has pretty much gone dead in terms of actual discussion with the Red team. It was never like this before, there were always feedback and Red owners always got proper information on how to proceed regarding certain issues.
    Now it feels like everyone is just left to figure things out themselves. We have to guess because the manual is incomplete and there's no real word on any of the issues.

    Did the SDI port fail while actually recording? Like, was it when you changed batteries? Did you have a 12G SDI cable? If this indeed happened while shooting, not changing batteries or things like that, well then it's possible that it's just designed poorly. That we actually have an SDI port that is unable to safely work with normal workflows. But we don't know, we don't get answers, and we don't know how to solve anything or what the actual problems really are here. So what's the solution? Demand Red to replace the SDI boards with proper shielding or rework the internal boards to not be this sensitive to failure? Like, class action lawsuit style -demand them to fix this for every Komodo owner? Because otherwise, we're just working with the camera on pure luck that our own system won't fail or at least fail before the warranty runs out.

    Because if we follow the proper procedure, it should not happen, period. I've been on so many sets where nothing of this gets followed and there's never been any problem, so these issues should actually be rare edge cases for those who don't follow procedures. That this seems to happen this frequently for people actually following proper procedures with correct cables etc. is just not ok. And Red keeping silent around these issues is also not ok.

    At the moment, I cannot buy a proper monitor. It's not worth getting an expensive monitor if there's a risk that things fail randomly because of poor internal design. It's not ok for a camera that is priced according to how reliable it is for use. This is why we buy Red cameras, to get rid of flimsy DSLR style BM cameras that have tons of problems that make them unreliable.
    If this is impossible to solve, then offer a baseplate, that has HDMI or another SDI port as a backup.

    But right now, the worst thing is that we're left in the dark because Red is just silent about all of this. So we end up in an investment standstill because we can't invest in further gear when we don't know if we buy into stuff that will just be unusable whenever some random problem occurs down the line, even though we take good care of our camera. The solution isn't to "just get in touch with Red support when you have a problem", because the problem is that, by the experiences people share, we use the camera on pure luck that it won't fail. It shouldn't be like this, but we don't even know if it even is like this, and we don't know how to solve it, how to be safe from eventual issues or how to even think about our workflow.

    Why can't Red just have the discussion with us so we can settle what is going on?
    "Using any digital cinema camera today is like sending your 35mm rolls to a standard lab. -Using a Red is like owning a dark room."
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  6. #46  
    Senior Member Bérenger Brillante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Björn Benckert View Post
    I got the vaxis komodo atom on my camera all the time. The way its seated with the v lock plate my sdi port is pretty much built in... I also tend to power the komodo worst way possible, dtap to that plate or even dtap and bypassing the plate straight to the connectors on the back of the vaxis...I by mistake fried a vaxis by giving it wrong polarity, but the camera did not go toast even though it was coming smoke out of the vaxis.

    So yes, will see how long it last I simply cant take the safety precausions that they advice in the manual.

    Who knows, there might be resons why red approved the vaxis TX and not the tilta power module.
    Do you use the SDI cable Vaxis suppliy or did you buy another cable brand ? You mentionned an other brand on facebook, right angle to straight, if I remember well
    Bérenger B. Brillante
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  7. #47  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siddhu S. View Post
    Out of curiosity, how did it happen?
    The start of the day everything was fine. We setup for an interview and the camera was being powered via AC. No problems at all. It wasn’t until we finished that interview and swapped the Komodo to the RS2 for b-roll that we were from then on unable to get a signal from the SDI. Nothing changed with the camera build itself, still the same battery and monitor setup, just moved the monitor from the top of the body to the RS2 handle. Same SDI cable, same everything. I’m unsure how it “happened” but I know the main variable that changed was going from AC power for the interview to battery for the gimbal work.
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  8. #48  
    The way that I have understood this is that you should not have the SDI cable attached when attaching a power cable or battery. This includes when the camera or accessories are in the on or off state. From the ARRI video in post #9 it should be:

    1. Connect power cables or batteries first, then attach SDI cables.
    2. Disconnect the SDI cables, then disconnect power cables or batteries.

    Yes, certainly a pain to always have to do it in this manner, but it seems to be the safest route.

    https://www.newsshooter.com/2020/02/...o-sdi-outputs/

    ARRI Technical Paper:

    https://www.arri.com/resource/blob/1...ation-data.pdf
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  9. #49  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Hofmeyr View Post
    That's bad news Michael. Thanks for letting us know. Hope you get it sorted asap. Do you know what was happening as the failure occurred? Was one of the batteries being swapped? Was the camera on?
    Thanks, Rob. There were no active swaps and the camera was powered down as we were moving from an AC-powered setup on sticks to a v-mount powered setup on gimbal. We filmed the interview (monitor working fine), powered everything down, unplugged AC, unplugged SDI, mounted the Komodo to the RS2, mounted monitor to the RS2 left handle, reconnected SDI, no signal. Tried different cables, different monitors, different batteries, everything. Never got a signal out of the SDI port again.


    Just submitted a support ticket to Red so I'll update you when we hear back.
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  10. #50  
    Senior Member Robert Hofmeyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R View Post
    Thanks, Rob. There were no active swaps and the camera was powered down as we were moving from an AC-powered setup on sticks to a v-mount powered setup on gimbal. We filmed the interview (monitor working fine), powered everything down, unplugged AC, unplugged SDI, mounted the Komodo to the RS2, mounted monitor to the RS2 left handle, reconnected SDI, no signal. Tried different cables, different monitors, different batteries, everything. Never got a signal out of the SDI port again.


    Just submitted a support ticket to Red so I'll update you when we hear back.
    Shit. So you were following protocol. This makes me nervous. I guess at least we can always use a phone via WiFi as a monitor in an emergency. Hope Red sorts you out quickly. Keep us updated.
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