Thread: Timecode w/ to sync 2 differnt cameras

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  1. #1 Timecode w/ to sync 2 differnt cameras 
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    We are working with a RED Monstro and a BlackMagic PCC, timecode is being jammed to both.
    This is not to sync audio but to sync the two cameras together.

    Both have project/base frame rate of 23.976, and our shooting rate is 29.976, to give a slight
    gliding/slow mo feel.

    When sycning both via timecode in Resolve, the cams have been off everyday so far, sometimes by 6 frames, sometimes 2 seconds and it drifts throughout the day.

    I was wondering if there's anyway to get TC spot on for both or because of the offspeed shooting rate it will always be off regardless that both cams have the exact same settings:
    23.976 project/base, 29.97 shooting rate

    Thanks
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  2. #2  
    Most cameras can't run TC in "free run" when shooting slow-mo/overcranking(shooting a higher frame rate than the base/project frame rate) and the camera is rolling at a higher frame rate than you're trying to lock it to, anyway.

    I'd recommend just shooting straight-up 29.97(base/project frame rate), run TC at 29.97(whether you pick drop-frame or non-drop frame, just make sure you go with that on all devices) and do the slow-mo in post/drop it into a 23.98 timeline.
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  3. #3  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Riggs View Post
    Both have project/base frame rate of 23.976, and our shooting rate is 29.976, to give a slight
    gliding/slow mo feel.
    I think this is a very bad idea for post, for a lot of reasons. Sliding sync is high on that list.

    If you needed a "slo-mo feel," I would've added some horizontal smear, basically artifically-induced shutter lag, which would do the same thing.

    For non-standard projects like this, I always recommend you shoot tests -- long tests, like 9-10 continuous minutes at least -- to make sure the idea will work. This may be a case where it will not work.
    marc wielage, csi colorist/post consultant daVinci Resolve Certified Trainer
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  4. #4  
    Senior Member Nick Morrison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wielage View Post
    I think this is a very bad idea for post, for a lot of reasons. Sliding sync is high on that list.

    If you needed a "slo-mo feel," I would've added some horizontal smear, basically artifically-induced shutter lag, which would do the same thing.

    For non-standard projects like this, I always recommend you shoot tests -- long tests, like 9-10 continuous minutes at least -- to make sure the idea will work. This may be a case where it will not work.
    I have to say not sure if I agree here. We've been shooting for our own post team (and our clients) for years, and matching timecode is always something we're very vigilant of.

    So long as every camera has something like this:
    https://www.betso.eu/products

    Any kind of Betso or Tentacyle sync that is jamming constantly all day, it shouldn't matter whether you're shooting slow mo or not. The cameras should all stay jammed.

    That said, shooting 29.97 for "slow mo" is going to be so subtle, you are right Marc it may actually just confuse the editors and look weird.

    Usually if we're shooting slight "slow mo" we just go 48fps, because it's really easy for editors to playback at 2x and make it look passably like realtime again.

    But the timecode should always stay locked across the cameras, but only if they are constantly being jammed by a device (in our experience).
    Nick Morrison
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  5. #5  
    IF Reds camera TC system works differently than most other cameras, then please correct me.

    I’ve seen this questioned asked by the OP across several forums, and to me it seems that everyone keeps ignoring/missing the fact that cameras, when in over/undercrank mode(slow-mo of fast-motion), do not run TC in Free Run mode, which is what’s necessary to keep them jammed to an external TC source, so it doesn’t matter if you have a TC box on the camera, when shooting off-speed, the camera cannot accept and jam running TC from an external source, such as a TC box.

    Again, the best solution if you need matching locked TC in-camera on multiple cameras/devices, is to shoot 29.97 real time(base/project frame rate) and slow it down in post. You could also just use a slate and line them up visually in post that way.
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  6. #6  
    Senior Member Nick Morrison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher A. Bell View Post
    IF Reds camera TC system works differently than most other cameras, then please correct me.

    I’ve seen this questioned asked by the OP across several forums, and to me it seems that everyone keeps ignoring/missing the fact that cameras, when in over/undercrank mode(slow-mo of fast-motion), do not run TC in Free Run mode, which is what’s necessary to keep them jammed to an external TC source, so it doesn’t matter if you have a TC box on the camera, when shooting off-speed, the camera cannot accept and jam running TC from an external source, such as a TC box.

    Again, the best solution if you need matching locked TC in-camera on multiple cameras/devices, is to shoot 29.97 real time(base/project frame rate) and slow it down in post. You could also just use a slate and line them up visually in post that way.
    Chris you may be right. We generally never only shoot slow-mo, its often a mixture of regular speed and slowmo, but having TC boxes on each camera has always kept them in sync enough to work for the past 10 years.

    I will say though that trying to slow down in post generally never works as well as doing it in camera, but that's also a creative choice.

    Have a good weekend gents!
    Nick Morrison
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  7. #7  
    Senior Member Tim Bradley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Riggs View Post

    Both have project/base frame rate of 23.976, and our shooting rate is 29.976, to give a slight
    gliding/slow mo feel.
    You need to decide which base frame rate you want to work with. Then jam to that for TC. Then shoot whatever speed you like on both cameras.

    I am in Aus and shoot PAL. Here I would set both cameras to 25fps and sync TC on both - then shoot at 30fps for a slight slow mo effect.
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  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Bradley View Post
    You need to decide which base frame rate you want to work with. Then jam to that for TC. Then shoot whatever speed you like on both cameras.

    I am in Aus and shoot PAL. Here I would set both cameras to 25fps and sync TC on both - then shoot at 30fps for a slight slow mo effect.
    The OP has already said that both cameras are set to the same base frame rate. The OP’s problem is that the cameras get out of sync and that is because once the cameras are switched to over/under crank(slow/fast motion), they are no longer synced/jammed with the same TC, because TC stops “Free Running” and only operates in “Record Run” in over/under crank(slow/fast motion). Again, their best options are to 1) shoot 29.97 base/real time so that they can stay jammed and slow it down in post or 2) shoot 23.98 base and over crank at 30 (as they’ve been doing) and slate both cameras at the same time and line it up in post.
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