Thread: New Premiere integration

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  1. #1 New Premiere integration 
    Senior Member Tom Dowler's Avatar
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    Don't really post on Reduser much these days, but wanted to make it 100% clear that the new Premiere integration, where all R3D files come in as RWG/Log3G10 no matter how they were set up/monitored on set, is the dumbest fucking change anyone has ever made in the history of changes.

    Not sure if Red or Adobe is responsible, but clips should come in the way they were monitored on-set. End of story, period, the end. Anything else is stupid to a degree I didn't think was fucking possible.
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  2. #2  
    I couldn't agree more. This seems like an absolutely insane decision.

    I've been opening up an old version of premiere (2019) and importing all the footage into a project, then just closing 2019, and opening that project in 2021 and then the R3D files hold all the data the way it always did before. Dirty workaround.
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  3. #3  
    Senior Member Mark A. Jaeger's Avatar
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    Tom,
    So you're not happy with the change???

    Just kidding - you made your position abundantly clear.

    I wrote a similar letter today, keeping the expletives to myself, terminating a deal that had gone south. I really hope the Seller can read between the lines to understand my true feelings but as they're sensitive folk I felt I couldn't just tell them "FUCK YOU - I'M OUTA HERE" in spite of my considerable desire to do so. It is often stressful to NOT say what you really want to but I'm chillin' now.
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  4. #4  
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    The old-old oftenchance story of "What goes in Adobe stays in Adobe." The change to C.C set me off properly cranky. They probably lost out on some with the subscription model but then return on subsequent investment for a lesser than potential client base than they otherwise would have attracted probably balances out for the company. I like so many have moved across to DaVinci Resolve and use Premiere CS6 only for MiniDV capture of archive these days. HDV capture is now broken. The choice of Sony cams has been severely culled. I guess the next step might be Adobe buying out Blackmagic Design and shutting DaVinci Resolve down.
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  5. #5  
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    Sent footage to editor....response "Everything is LOG, didn't expect to have to start from scratch on Color". I don't understand, so I do some research...floored to find this out, guess this new change happened a month ago for CC.

    I truly do not understand. And the worst part is you cant do a global change to the Master Settings of all the clips in the Project Bin....to at least change the Output transform Gamma & Colorspace.

    To add to the frustration...Red Cine X is now totally useless besides exporting proxies or Prores for post (with an Adobe workflow). I use it as a one light grade, saved to RMD, before handing footage to Post.

    The work around of creating a LUT in Redcine to apply to a Lumitri preset is a step backward, a joke really...it forces the Editor to not only create this LUT, but once applied it "red" render bars forcing a render to make viewable.

    Wow, for delivering to adobe eiditors, this has blown up the workflow.

    Are the other NLE's ignoring RMD?
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  6. #6  
    Senior Member Blair S. Paulsen's Avatar
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    Perhaps the thread title should be Premieme dis-integration...

    Cheers - #19
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  7. #7  
    Senior Member Loren Simons's Avatar
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    Hi All,

    This was my proposed change.

    The previous implementation had multiple problems, the two main ones being;

    1. People were working with reduced dynamic range image data, as they were making their Lumetri color changes ON TOP of essentially a baked Rec.709 SDR image, as opposed to working BEHIND the LUT and with the full dynamic range of the log image, as would happen in a proper color managed workflow or if you set the LUT as a creative LUT in a Lumetri Effects layer. This was a poor reflection of the camera’s capabilities.

    2. The other goal here was creating consistency for how footage comes in across all NLE/post tools, so that a project that does round tripping between multiple pieces of software were all starting at a guaranteed common ground, something that has wreaked havoc on productions before.

    I also made the assumption that in today’s landscape an editor recieving log footage wouldn’t be earth shattering, with every major camera at every price point offering a log image. We are hoping to get our LUT into Premiere so that a user won’t have to add it manually, and ultimately, yes a project wise color management / R3D decode In Premiere would be the dream.

    But there are solutions for those of you (or your clients) who do not want to or do not have the ability to work in a color managed workflow.

    For those of you who still want to work with an RMD workflow like Dane, that is still entirely possible as your RMD’s are not ignored. What is ignored is the display dependent output transform since a color managed workflow has been selected in camera.

    Simply make all of your adjustments in RCX like you normally would, but instead of selecting your Output Tone Map and Highlight Roll Off under Output Transform, click “Bypass IPP2 Output Transform” - essentially disabling the Color Managed workflow. Then, create and import the equivalent Output Tone Map LUT in RCX (only have to do this once) and Apply it to the footage. This will then come into Premiere as non-color managed and looking the same (on your same monitor) as it does in RCX with all of your adjustments. You can do this in a batch manner in RCX as I show in the video below.
    Last edited by Loren Simons; 06-15-2021 at 04:52 PM.
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  8. #8  
    Senior Member Loren Simons's Avatar
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    If your workflow does not include RCX - you can still deliver your client a finished non-color-managed image directly from camera.

    Simply set your camera’s Image Pipeline to the non-color-managed Output Color Space of REDWideGamutRGB, and apply a LUT in camera which brings your footage into your desired color space. This could even be an IPP2 LUT with your preference of output tone map and highlight roll off generated from RCX, or one of the new artistic LUTS we’ve put on our downloads page. These clips will now come in automatically as Rec.709, or whatever color space your LUT is taking it to.

    I have uploaded a video demonstrating both of these workflows here.

    https://youtu.be/npvQwO5Qm7M

    I hope that helps clear up your workflows and explains the logic behind what some may have felt was a “stupid” decision.
    Last edited by Loren Simons; 06-15-2021 at 04:54 PM.
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  9. #9  
    Senior Member Blair S. Paulsen's Avatar
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    Props to Loren for owning this choice. With workflows, more control typically means more complexity. There's also the built expectations of the community and the wide range of experience/knowledge levels in the workforce. Clear explanations in the documentation are crucial and changes in process should be prominently noted. Never changing is not a realistic option...

    Cheers - #19
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  10. #10  
    Senior Member Loren Simons's Avatar
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    Thanks Blair,

    I still adamantly believe this is the right process, and I have received a lot of positive feedback on the change. And usually when I receive feedback like this, these explanations help make sense of it and assure people they still can maintain a similar workflow.

    But - you are right - we should have rolled this change out with much clearer documentation on how to maintain the previous workflow like I’ve explained here. I will work on writing up an article for our support page this week.
    Loren Simons
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