Thread: New Premiere integration

Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 33
  1. #11  
    Loren your logic makes sense to a very specific subset of shooters. I would argue that the vast majority of people shooting on REDs were happy with the original way of importing footage and having it set up the way we had it set on the camera.

    I'm a one man band shooting team. I need quick turn around for corporate/commercial clients. Adding that extra step of going into RCX to change literally anything adds time to my workflow and creates a huge headache for me. I agree with the original poster that this is not just a really bad implementation but also a complete misunderstanding of how the majority of people use RED cameras.


    But with that being said - a great workaround to this problem is to import your R3D files into an older premiere version (2019 or similar) save the project, and then import that project into the newer premiere - they'll come in as shot.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #12  
    Senior Member Loren Simons's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    130
    Chris,

    Are you using a DSMC2 brain? Because there is also a solution for in-camera implementation in my post, which is setup once and done, and requires no change to yours or your clients post workflow if this is how they want to work.

    One fair caveat is that, yes, there is no simple in-camera solution for our older brains that do not support in-camera LUTs.

    For those cameras, I think the REDCINE-X workflow is simpler than the previous version Premiere one, but to each their own. I have uploaded a 60 second video showing the pre-treatment in RCX, of which 13 seconds are actually spent in RCX and the rest is in Premiere demonstrating that side.

    If you're handing off footage to a client this could be part of your good practice of checking the delivery drive to ensure all footage was copied over correctly.

    https://youtu.be/XiQDT4sXQFI

    This change wasn't made in a vacuum. The team and myself have had countless discussions just like this one but with filmmakers wondering why footage looks different across different software, or why images looked double lutted in Premiere sometimes, or why the footage doesn't "feel" right because they were unable to pull back the highlights they were expecting to since none of the RAW meters were clipped in-camera.
    Last edited by Loren Simons; 06-18-2021 at 11:02 AM.
    Loren Simons
    RED Digital Cinema
    Motion Picture Technology Advisor
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #13  
    Again I see your logic but it’s a solution to a problem that many of us never had. And from my point of view after 8 years of working with RED projects to all of a sudden have premiere import footage in any manner other than the way I shot it on my camera is absolutely a horrible workflow.

    I’ll give you an example of why.

    I go and shoot an event. I’m handing the raw footage off to an internal editing team who has never used RED before. They get the footage and it looks grey and muddy. An experienced editor might ask questions, but an inexperienced one - which is common with corporate and government clients which are my bread and butter - they’ll just assume I shot it badly and they’ll probably have a bad experience and never call me again.

    You say this wasn’t developed in a vacuum and that may be true but it sure seems like it was created in an echo chamber. The majority of your users are not working in a Hollywood pipeline. Most of us are independent contractors working solo or in very small teams where these concerns about image pipelines are not a thing.

    Why not prompt users when they import to choose whether to import as shot or flat? Give us the option?

    Or - I guess the option is to just stop using premiere because this is not an issue in FCPx or DaVinci.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #14  
    And I’ve spoken to dozens of colleagues - pro shooters - who either own, have owned or have shot on RED in the past and not a single one of them things this is a good idea. I’ll take your word for it that you’re getting compliments on the decision but I assure you this is more of a hinderance to your average shooter than you think.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #15  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    709
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Chitaroni View Post

    Why not prompt users when they import to choose whether to import as shot or flat? Give us the option?

    Or - I guess the option is to just stop using premiere because this is not an issue in FCPx or DaVinci.
    This could be a good easy option that should satisfy many.

    I don't edit with Premiere but like Chris I do have to deliver footage to others that do.

    There are many editors who are not colorist and DO NOT want to have anything to do with LUTs, looks, Color tabs, etc.
    Many clients also do minimal to no color correction of the material handed to them.

    I go through a bit of extra effort to give a good one pass on the RAW settings before handing off just so I know the footage will look as intended and halfway decent after editing.

    It's a bit frustrating that adjuments on my end may not translate to the edit and output stage.

    Like Chris said provide an option.

    Loren- I look forward to any white paper you have regarding the ins and outs of this workflow so I can pass it on to others I work with.

    Brian Timmons
    BRITIM/MEDIA
    If you love comic books please support the GoFundMe for
    Hy Eisman: A Life in Comics documentary


    www.britim-media.com
    IMDB
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #16  
    Senior Member DJ Meyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    959
    Corporate/commercial shooter here.

    Love the new change.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #17  
    DJ - why do you love it? I’m curious. How does it improve your workflow?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #18  
    Senior Member Loren Simons's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    130
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Chitaroni View Post
    Why not prompt users when they import to choose whether to import as shot or flat? Give us the option?

    Or - I guess the option is to just stop using premiere because this is not an issue in FCPx or DaVinci.
    Chris,

    I would love a project wide settings in Premiere like FCPx and DaVinci have. No objection here, but that is out of our control. Please make the feature request to Adobe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Timmons View Post
    I go through a bit of extra effort to give a good one pass on the RAW settings before handing off just so I know the footage will look as intended and halfway decent after editing.

    It's a bit frustrating that adjuments on my end may not translate to the edit and output stage.
    Brian are you doing your one pass in RCX before handing off footage to the client like Dane? Or somewhere else? If RCX, your adjustments can still show up exactly how you intend with no change needed by the Premiere editor. If you haven't already please check out the two videos I made for this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Chitaroni View Post
    \I’m handing the raw footage off to an internal editing team who has never used RED before.
    In this example, are you handing them a MINI-MAG or a hard drive which you've offloaded footage on? Assuming hard drive, and I'm also assuming you review the footage on the hard drive briefly to make sure everything transferred over properly. It's at this point I would recommend reviewing that footage in RCX, just clicking through a few clips at 1/4 res to make sure it's all there, and before closing out, applying that Preset to all clips in your bin to bake in your look.


    Ultimately, by defaulting footage this way we make the widest range of workflows accessible.

    By coming in Log3G10, to get to 709, it's just an application of a LUT, which can be done with a single drag and drop of a Lumetri Preset to all the footage in your bin. You can even send the Premiere Lumetri Preset along with your footage to the client. I have pre-made this preset and a small graphic to send to clients who aren't technical.

    But if the footage came in baked 709/BT.1886, there is no way to get to Log other than the manual clip by clip process, a quick drop-on LUT or Preset for that isn't possible. So if someone wanted to do proper color adjustments with Lumetri, they would have to manually change every clip to RWG/Log3G10 before applying their LUT and working with the footage properly - and that is the biggest complaint I received.
    Last edited by Loren Simons; 06-20-2021 at 09:29 AM.
    Loren Simons
    RED Digital Cinema
    Motion Picture Technology Advisor
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #19  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    709
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Simons View Post
    Chris,

    Brian are you doing your one pass in RCX before handing off footage to the client like Dane? Or somewhere else? If RCX, your adjustments can still show up exactly how you intend with no change needed by the Premiere editor. If you haven't already please check out the two videos I made for this thread.

    Thanks for the reply Loren.
    The step by step should be helpful and I will forward it along.

    Brian Timmons
    BRITIM/MEDIA
    If you love comic books please support the GoFundMe for
    Hy Eisman: A Life in Comics documentary


    www.britim-media.com
    IMDB
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #20  
    Loren thanks for the reply.

    Again - I totally understand where you're coming from. I can see how its harder to add a LUT than remove it - but it still creates an extra step in my workflow that has not been there for the past 8 years of using RED cameras and because the workflow you're describing is totally alien to me. I've never heard of anyone having the problems you're describing - that is why this seems so backwards. And I stand by it. I still - after reading your explanations, watching your videos and hearing your logic think that this is a terrible idea and it's a solution to a problem that a very small number of users were experiencing.

    I try to avoid using RCX because its just an extra step in a workflow that until now didn't need to be done. My footage came into Adobe as shot (which is how I wanted it to be) and any time I needed to do any tweaking it was easy enough to do in the Red Source Settings right inside of Adobe.

    We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. It's really just one more reason to finally abandon Adobe and move over to Davinci.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts