Thread: The Pros & Cons Of Film Vs Digital: Featuring Robert Yeoman

Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 18
  1. #1 The Pros & Cons Of Film Vs Digital: Featuring Robert Yeoman 
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    10,647
    The Pros & Cons Of Film Vs Digital: Featuring Robert Yeoman


    By In Depth Cine


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #2  
    Senior Member Karim D. Ghantous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Melbourne AU
    Posts
    2,122
    I agree with most of that, if not all of it. I loved that 7213 footage though. That's just beautiful stuff. The Alexa footage looked rather flat compared to it. And maybe that's our problem. If we didn't compare, we might not really have any opinion at all. Maybe the criteria should simply be that the image should not look like crap.

    I respect every DP's choice, even if I may disagree with some or all of their reasons. What you choose to shoot on is your professional decision - that is part of why you were hired. But for a DP to say that there is nothing more to say on the issue, or that we don't need to discuss it anymore, or that only story matters - that is disingenuous. If lenses matter, then why don't cameras matter? Makes you think.
    Good production values may not be noticed. Bad production values will be.
    Unsplash | Pinterest | Flickr | Instagram | 1961 (blog)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #3  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    342
    Quote Originally Posted by Karim D. Ghantous View Post
    I agree with most of that, if not all of it. I loved that 7213 footage though. That's just beautiful stuff. The Alexa footage looked rather flat compared to it. And maybe that's our problem. If we didn't compare, we might not really have any opinion at all. Maybe the criteria should simply be that the image should not look like crap.

    I respect every DP's choice, even if I may disagree with some or all of their reasons. What you choose to shoot on is your professional decision - that is part of why you were hired. But for a DP to say that there is nothing more to say on the issue, or that we don't need to discuss it anymore, or that only story matters - that is disingenuous. If lenses matter, then why don't cameras matter? Makes you think.

    +1

    love shooting on film...and the added knowledge of film helped me get most of my jobs out of school..(about 5 years ago)

    love digital too..(red great cam)

    I shoot on both about 60-70 percent film the rest digital
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #4  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Hollywood, USA
    Posts
    6,400
    Quote Originally Posted by Karim D. Ghantous View Post
    I agree with most of that, if not all of it. I loved that 7213 footage though. That's just beautiful stuff. The Alexa footage looked rather flat compared to it. And maybe that's our problem. If we didn't compare, we might not really have any opinion at all. Maybe the criteria should simply be that the image should not look like crap.
    I think you can make digital look closer to film (in terms of level and contrast) than you think. It doesn't have to look "flat" per se -- that's just what one colorist did.

    Check out Steve Yedlin's side-by-side comparison and see if you can see the difference. I've been doing this for 42 years, and I couldn't. Note that I spent 22 years at Technicolor and 2 at Kodak, so I've been around the block a bit.

    http://www.yedlin.net/DisplayPrepDem...ze_20mbps.html
    marc wielage, csi • colorist/post consultant • daVinci Resolve Certified Trainer
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #5  
    Senior Member Karim D. Ghantous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Melbourne AU
    Posts
    2,122
    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wielage View Post
    I think you can make digital look closer to film (in terms of level and contrast) than you think. It doesn't have to look "flat" per se -- that's just what one colorist did.

    Check out Steve Yedlin's side-by-side comparison and see if you can see the difference. I've been doing this for 42 years, and I couldn't. Note that I spent 22 years at Technicolor and 2 at Kodak, so I've been around the block a bit.

    http://www.yedlin.net/DisplayPrepDem...ze_20mbps.html
    I probably should have been clearer: the Alexa footage that was 'flat' was strictly footage shown from one production in that video. I have seen lovely images from Alexa productions, obviously. I remember watching Exorcist: The Beginning, and thinking, this film looks a bit so-so. It turns out it was 35mm.

    I have seen that Yedlin video. You can indeed match colours precisely under most conditions. He does not discuss the side-effects of digital capture, which cannot usually be fixed with a LUT, but he is right as far as he goes. You may be familiar with Fujifilm cameras and their film simulation options?
    Good production values may not be noticed. Bad production values will be.
    Unsplash | Pinterest | Flickr | Instagram | 1961 (blog)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #6  
    Senior Member PatrickWebb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Location
    Norway.
    Posts
    212
    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wielage View Post
    I think you can make digital look closer to film (in terms of level and contrast) than you think. It doesn't have to look "flat" per se -- that's just what one colorist did.

    Check out Steve Yedlin's side-by-side comparison and see if you can see the difference. I've been doing this for 42 years, and I couldn't. Note that I spent 22 years at Technicolor and 2 at Kodak, so I've been around the block a bit.

    http://www.yedlin.net/DisplayPrepDem...ze_20mbps.html
    I can agree with this also. Digital capture has come a long way. I also think that Film has its place. Again, as Yedlin discusses, the choice of using a camera type is technical, albiet a creative one and shouldn't hinder the decision making process to choosing the right tool for the job.

    However, you can really do a fantastic job or recreating some of the film looks, if one feel so inclined to do that. Again, there is much more to the argument than just the Film VS Digital debate. It comes down to then entire production and post-production pipeline and the decisions made through each of those variables. I feel like I can achieve a very filmesque look with my Epic X / Scarlet X by just choosing different types of glass and filters, along with stylistic modelling of the light and it doesn't feel to me to be this "digital look".

    I feel also, that the digital cinema cameras can also provide a different quality than the ENG and consumer type cameras, which often feels like some 4K+ with sharpness applied, which gives that "digital look". I have used the BMPCC4K for some time and one can achieve beautiful images as well as some ultra sharp shots.

    The argument can continue that film eventually becomes digital anyway. Especially when watching on a mobile device or computer monitor. It is sort of a "nowhere to go" debate now. Unless, of course, you roll that film from the camera through a film projector ~ there is your purist experience there. I guess that is the dilemma of the Cinema situation: providing the infrastructure for showing movies in Film and in Digital.

    I don't feel the sadness or frustration some might feel about this; naming the classic Tarantino's and Deakin's debate. I just see it to be an option that could depend on cost and availability. Yeoman mentions that the concentration levels are just different when shooting film vs digital ~ and as that might be true in some cases, I feel like that is just one perspective from many. Really, it is all expensive and if someone is on the set checking their phone and not concertinaing on the job, then they should probably check themselves out the door or put the phone away. Everyone should really be respecting the job they have and realise how lucky they are to be working in such a great industry.

    Nevertheless, I hope that film, as a medium, stays with us and that Digital can take us places no one has ever gone before ~ which it has proven countless times, again and again. Not to say that Film hasn't done this in the beginning and up till today!

    I would be pretty happy to work one day with film, but it just isn't within reach for my type of productions at the moment. I am not even sure where I could get it developed in Norway anyway. I am sure that if it does happen, then I will have a bunch of operators and techs that should know this information. :)
    Patrick Webb,
    Director of Photography
    Heapsgood Productions, Norway.
    (www.Heapsgood.no)
    EPIC-X #06833 "Monsta" & SCARLET-X #01773 "Scratch"
    Carl Zeiss, Voigtänder & Russian glass
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #7  
    Senior Member Karim D. Ghantous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Melbourne AU
    Posts
    2,122
    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickWebb View Post
    I feel like I can achieve a very filmesque look with my Epic X / Scarlet X by just choosing different types of glass and filters, along with stylistic modelling of the light and it doesn't feel to me to be this "digital look".
    I absolutely love the MX sensor. As a camera the Epic MX still holds up today. It's now ten years old. If you want value, there is no other camera that can match it.
    Good production values may not be noticed. Bad production values will be.
    Unsplash | Pinterest | Flickr | Instagram | 1961 (blog)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #8  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    10,647
    Cinematography Style: Darius Khondji


    By
    In Depth Cine


    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #9  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    10,647
    Film Vs Digital in 2021 - Can you tell the difference?


    by Artlist


    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #10  
    Senior Member rand thompson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    10,647
    Going Dark: The Final Days of Film Projection (Documentary 1080p)


    By
    The Documentary Network



    Reply With Quote  
     

Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts