A new chapter... or my last one?

[mikeburton]

Please post it back then. I wrote it so that it could be read, not deleted.

Having said that, nothing gives me more joy than seeing someone else's downfall.

(Shocking how I can even put these sentences together. I should burn in hell)

Get a grip people.

Ketch should be granted the same respect as anyone here. There's no such thing as wearing out your welcome on an internet forum so long as your intentions are good. I don't believe Ketch ever had anything but good intentions for himself, RED, his crew and certainly his work. So, he failed at his first short film. So what? You seem to have some kind of problem with that? Or that he shares his personal medical issues with the folks he considers friends? I can say that regardless of how many times Ketch may have been wrong in his banter or created sub-par work, at least he is out there trying to be better, working hard and doing what his heart tells him to do. Your post above stating that "nothing gives you more joy than to watch someone else's downfall" is really disturbing. Its arrogant, lacks "moral fibre", and "is just sad". Sound familiar. It should, those are your words.
Don't get this twisted, I'm not defending Ketch or his work, I don't have to, he has enough people to come to his rescue and is strong enough to defend himself. Rather I feel I'm defending a good moral sense of being and how one should act on an open forum where we should all be treating each other with respect. So, respectfully I say, knock it the F#@k off!

 

[George Butterfield]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7BispSvZiU

That's nothing, I've got a clip of me eating a whole bowl of strawberry Haagen Dazs!

 

[Michael Dalton]

Please post it back then. I wrote it so that it could be read, not deleted.

A lot of young folks come here to learn, and Ketch is always so forceful in shaping their opinions, in my humble opinion he should have more of an ethical concern when doing so.

I would say this has been an incredible lesson for a lot of us in many ways, both good and bad.

I admire Ketch for getting off his ass and doing something regardless of how it turned out. He took a risk, something a lot of people are not willing to do. I thank him more for showing it. Even when it became apparent things were not working out how he plan, he endured abuse and answered peoples questions. That takes a good heart. He does not need to bury his head here.

I personally would like to know more about the whole process, what he was thinking, where it went wrong and why. A lot can be learned. Writing, directing, and producing is tough. I thought the concept was flawed when I first heard about, but never spoke up. He choose a difficult and touchy subject.What's so great about this community is that it is collaborative. Maybe next time Ketch will let a few trusted people in at the concept stage to help the process along. If people got a better script maybe he would not been left hanging. I've seen his skydive dubai piece, and it's solid. Some stunning shoots in it. I hope to see you back with a new project Ketch. If you bend your ways a bit, and learn from this, it can be a great turn around to comeback with a successful follow up.

I personally would love to see the film dissected from top to bottom with some well directed questions and answers. It's difficult to do stuff on no budget even with some of the best help and equipment.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

coming on here asking for mercy

Mercy is a virtue.

nothing gives me more joy than seeing someone else's downfall.

Life span of that joy is equivalent to the quality of its foundations.







Surely you don't think you were lead to this thread just to give someone else a lesson.

 

[Zeb B]

I strongly disagree with Antonio's tone and approach in this thread. That said, Ketch lost me when he went completely tone deaf by attempting to glamorize the very serious issue of Rape in his last couple projects discussed at length on RU. There is no excuse or explanation for the twisted, self absorbed work in his recent soft-porn film shot at RED for RED. And yes - I did see it and fully understand why it and all the threads related to it, were completely expunged from existence.

While I believe Ketch is basically a kind human he appears to need consoling to reveal the root cause of his craving for constant attention through creating mythical health, business scenarios as well as his dangerous views on women. Spend a week in a rape survivor center hearing their stories before shooting your first frame of film with that as a main plot theme. Rape is an act of violence committed by cowards.

 

[Elsie N]

... Rape is an act of violence committed by cowards.

Since this is the PC thing to say, I agree... but... as a movie maker it is also a story tool, just like taking a chain saw to a character is a story tool.

I think too many here were moved by the story, which is actually what a movie maker strives for. Right?

 

[Zeb B]

Since this is the PC thing to say, I agree... but... as a movie maker it is also a story tool, just like taking a chain saw to a character is a story tool.

I think too many here were moved by the story, which is actually what a movie maker strives for. Right?

"PC" really? Give me a break. If it's such a moving story then repost it and let's have that debate without censorship.

RU can easy become a bubble of like minded Men that attack and push away anything that does not agree with the group norm. Which is what I would expect from a small town in the South . . . but not from a forum that serves progressive, intelligent creatives.

Ketch needs professional help - not more enabling praise for a fantasy based life

 

[Gunleik Groven]

I kinda am not a big fan of personal attacks on fora.
Not from Ketch.
Not on Ketch.

Let us keep it at discussing cameras and cinematography.

Ketch put up RED dress as a piece.
As long as that discussion was open and he wanted to present it like he did. Well, that kinda invited to a few comments.
BUT. It is gone.
Better let it be.

If he is ill, I hope he gets well.

There are reasons people spite this forum.
Some are silly.
Others are understandable.

When coming here to get info about tech, techniques, cinematography, general imagery and end up with page after page of character discussions...
Whatever one feels about an individual...
It just adds to the noise.

Ketch did his thing.
We got to see it.

THAT is actually pretty brave in some ways, whatever one thinks of the piece.

Ketch decided that it was not fit for public display.

I kinda think that is a respectable decision, whatever made him change his mind.
He did.

THEN all the pointing out what was possibly not penultimate about the piece, becomes moot, in a way.

I sometimes am a bit surprised about peoples total will to selfdestruct and destroy the value of their own investments by badmouthing things.

As long as Ketch held the piece as a revolutionary new way of narrative storytelling, that was kinda a relevant theme.
When that is no longer the case... well then it is not.

Get well Ketch and chill down. Please.

pretty please!

Cheers

G

 

[Elsie N]

... Which is what I would expect from a small town in the South . . . but not from a forum that serves progressive, intelligent creatives.

Ketch needs professional help - not more enabling praise for a fantasy based life

I thought Ketch was from a medium sized Italian town in the west, but I don't know that for sure. Anyway, I don't think the size of a person's town is as important as the size of their intellect and heart.

And while it was thinly veiled, I offer the benefit of my own experience that personal attacks will get a person banned on Reduser. I suspect that's what happened to Antonio as it happened to me a while back. I was put in the cooler for 30 days for "personal attacks". I actually was not aware I had made a personal attack until I remembered posting that a certain person should change his avatar from his actual picture to that of a more friendly-looking one of a teddy bear. Their tolerance level in re: personal attacks is pretty low.

 

[Elsie N]

"PC" really? Give me a break. If it's such a moving story then repost it and let's have that debate without censorship.
...

I should have said "moved by the theme of the story, in a negative way."

If it was merely a bad movie I don't think so many who wrote scathing reviews initially would have repeatedly brought up the rape part of the story.

 

[Brice Ansel]

And while it was thinly veiled, I offer the benefit of my own experience that personal attacks will get a person banned on Reduser. I suspect that's what happened to Antonio as it happened to me a while back.

It is obvious than the person who's hiding behind the avatar of Mr Fagundes behaved as a Kamikaze.
I think the John Doe behind Mr F. wanted to kill his caracter for a while.
I'm not worried for John Doe, I'm sure he has others avatar to play with.

 

[Zeb B]

. . . Let us keep it at discussing cameras and cinematography.

Let's make RU the premiere source for all things related to cutting edge film making. Like it was some years ago. There is a place for personal musings and over-sharing . . . it's called Facebook.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Like it was some years ago.

Your post count is in FullHD.

 

[George Butterfield]

I didn't see the film, I think I was aware of it being made and I think I had a negative or ambivalent attitude towards it. Maybe I even started watching it and got bored, I forget. BUT, most people in the industry rate a film according to it's box office returns, nothing else. Not everyone in the industry does this, just most. Ketch, do you know about the new VIMEO service VIMEO VOD and VIMEO PRO? I suggest you put the film up there with a one week rental fee of $3. I bet it will make a lot of money, and therefore be considered a very successful film in most of Hollywood's eyes.

 

[D Anderson]

Antonios thermonuclear posts are unacceptable for sure.

However he has a point I agree with...

There are posters on RU offering advice who should not be doing so. Students (or relatively recent graduates), hobbyists more than professionals.... offering lengthy advice at every turn and as Antonio says; new members (even old members) may not realize the lack of experience the poster has simply because no one calls them out.

I do think no matter what you think of Ketchs work creatively, Ketch has value to add to RU since he has PLENTY of paid professional experience with the equipment everyone is interested in.

As I say, its the members with minimal experience posting tomes of advice that I wholeheartedly agree should cut back their posting. Ironically for Antonio I don't think Ketch is in that group.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

I agree that a camera forum is not the ideal place for discussions of one's personal health. Perhaps that's why Ketch posted in OFF TOPIC. That's what its for.

FWIW I find it ironic that people who have never actually worked with Ketch are so certain he's just a poser. Keep in mind English is not his first language and he has a unique way of expressing himself that can easily be mis-interpreted on the internet. So he's enthusiastic, is that grounds for vitriol in return?

IAC, if you're not interested in the Ketch Rossi saga, ignore it. What, exactly, is difficult about that?

Cheers - #19

 

[Zeb B]

Antonios thermonuclear posts are unacceptable for sure.

There are posters on RU offering advice who should not be doing so. Students (or relatively recent graduates), hobbyists more than professionals.... offering lengthy advice at every turn and as Antonio says; new members (even old members) may not realize the lack of experience the poster has simply because no one calls them out.

Would be cool to have a User Administered Rating system that would allow new or casual users to qualify RU members input. Like a star system which is standard on most Yelp style sites. That and a user definable RSS feed. Any idiot can have a couple thousand posts about absolutely nothing and appear to have something technical useful to say . . . I'm proof of that, which Hrvoje so bravely pointed out above ;-)

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

The context of that post is visible in the quoted part.

If the corners of the mouth aren't moving upwards, something is blocking visibility of the context.

 

[michael zaletel]

When I go to fight a battle that every one tells me I already lost...

It is when I persevere and fight the hardest to win!!

I had no idea Ketch. I am sorry for the struggles you've had to endure. Keep the faith. Never give up.

 

[Ivan Kovax]

I should have said "moved by the theme of the story, in a negative way."

If it was merely a bad movie I don't think so many who wrote scathing reviews initially would have repeatedly brought up the rape part of the story.

There is no point in talking about that movie anymore. Before the Red Dress and ROAB many people warned Ketch of many mistakes not to make, quite a few which were eventually made for whatever reasons and unfortunately came to fruition. Because of this people became more than zealous to point it out on the removed Red Dress thread. The reason why people brought up the rape issue is that this was originally warned against ad nauseum for a myriad of reasons... most of which were never "rape is not a suitable filmmaking topic". To simplify it to that is too much.

I have sometimes disagreed with Ketch in many ways in the past 6 years, and I often do things quite differently in my life. However everybody does. Ketch is who he is. It seems that people want him to "wake up" or to change whatever behaviour they see as being arrogant, or destructive. The simple answer is this: If you like Ketch, then support him. If you dislike him, and he is not doing you any harm then leave it alone as he really isn't doing anything wrong. There is another sentient human at the other end of your keyboard when you write something. It is not as anonymous as we would think.

Ketch is ill. I wish him the best. I hope he recovers, and that he does the right research and triumphs over disease and malady. Keeping in good spirits is also important, so all this bickering serves no real purpose.