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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED V-Raptor Versus V-Raptor XL

No EVF RED made where good. I do prefer that they leave this part to other manufacturers. I do hope some manufacturer will take the challange to make the definitive one. Kameleon is getting close to it but not yet 100%
 
EVF

EVF

The DSMC2 Red OLED EVF is not a bad EVF but not a great EVF* and frankly I find all the EVF's a bit disappointing even the Arri EVF-2 (Not tried Sonys Venice EVF.) I believe EVFs need to be higher resolution than 1920x1080 which is the minimum resolution of any deliverable. We need EVFs to step up to 3840x2160. We have 8K cameras but it can very hard to nail focus when an image looks sharp at 1920x1080 but is soft at 4K and even worse when post production decide to zoom in and reframe. What is the use of 8K of resolution when it is soft? A UHD resolution EVF would give operators an earlier heads up when images are softening. With this new generation of cameras outputting 4K for monitoring its time for EVFs to step up.


*The DSMC2 Red OLED EVF claims 1920x1080 resolution but unless peaking is on it looks very soft???
 
DSMC2 oled evf was a great piece of industrial design.

cable free simple rosette mount to the body is great, it can be disassembled easily to clean, and useful camera control buttons
filming war zones and wildlife, its just about perfect, cables and arms or rod mounts are far from ideal.
The resolution is fine with peaking, generally shooting 400 to 600mm f2.8-f4.
the sony microdisplays everyone uses are still limited to 1080p, but have gotten brighter:
https://www.framos.com/en/product-catalog/displays/microdisplays

I wish it had an auto-off sensor, the rubber eyecups were permanently attached to the ring, and a instant 1:1 zoom while recording, but that is a camera limitation.

The kamelon is big and klunky, non-standard rosette, can't be cleaned easily, and has a fan.
bm ursa evf is kinda ok, but big, has to be modified for general use, the diopter is kinda cheap, and their auto-off sensor spazes out in dusty environments so it not reliable. maybe they will make a new one thats more general purpose since this one is getting old now. the design of their cable free evf for the p6k pro is really nice, but the image is not very sharp.
the other 3d party ones are worse - zcam,portkeys.


the arri evf-2 has a nice image, good zoom features, heated eye cups, but its designed for a plush film set, or the don't let the talent see your eye line, double the cost and 3x the weight.

There are no side pogos on the raptor, and on the xl drawing its just a sdi labeled evf port and dc port at the front, so I doubt we'll see a proprietary dsmc3 evf, which is sad.
 
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Vicky Marie Marks said:
There are no side pogos on the raptor, and on the xl drawing its just a sdi labeled evf port and dc port at the front, so I doubt we'll see a proprietary dsmc3 evf, which is sad.
Click to expand...

Correct on all of that Vicky.

What isn't known is if the EXP USB-C or similar could go to a proprietary EVF. Or just the SDI route. The concept of moving power and signal via pogo or single cable is sort of the best thing IMO. I hope that is where the focus is.

Really agree on the current EVF landscape though. Wouldn't mind a slightly updated EVF based on the DSMC2 one really, it's the right compact size. Just needs new guts to make it play nice with the new tech.
 
Vicky Marie Marks said:
DSMC2 oled evf was a great piece of industrial design.

cable free simple rosette mount to the body is great, it can be disassembled easily to clean, and useful camera control buttons
filming war zones and wildlife, its just about perfect, cables and arms or rod mounts are far from ideal.
The resolution is fine with peaking,
Click to expand...

Totally agree, I’m really happy with it and fingers crossed I can find a similar option for VRaptor.
 
Phil Holland said:
Correct on all of that Vicky.

What isn't known is if the EXP USB-C or similar could go to a proprietary EVF. Or just the SDI route. The concept of moving power and signal via pogo or single cable is sort of the best thing IMO. I hope that is where the focus is.

Really agree on the current EVF landscape though. Wouldn't mind a slightly updated EVF based on the DSMC2 one really, it's the right compact size. Just needs new guts to make it play nice with the new tech.
Click to expand...


With the power and SGI ports conveniently located on the XL I don’t mind the idea of a third party EVF. In fact, I’d like a top plate for the Raptor that placed a SDI and power port for an EVF on the EVF side of the camera. The Venice EVF is by far the best I’ve used (by a mile). Red’s is OK I think but something in the Venice ballpark would be a significant development. They seem unlikely to develop a way of running a top monitor and evf using that single pogo design I’d say. Hence the EVF SDI and power port…
 
I'm not shure we need more resolution on the EVF than 1080 but the tools are key.
As of today I use the focus peaking of the RED set to 2 and the EVF peaking in low mode so the fairly precise peaking of the RED is right on on the EVF but the EVF peaking catches up when the RED peaking dissapear on fast movements.

I don't find the Kameleon EVF clumsy and the fan never bothered any mixer I worked with. But if there would be a still bether option out there I would be happy.

I'm more bothered with the delay of the signal chain. Wich is a real bummer for fast framing. I usually use my left eye to see the action to get in the pace...

Patrick
 
I'd love to know what the weight is? Basically much over 3kg would have me less keen... so I do hope they are spending some cash on some high performance light weight materials! The Raptor ST that we have is 1.8kg so adding some extra outputs, a ND system and a proper mount surly can be done in less than the same weight again?
 
Well Rangers are ~7.5lbs? That's ~3.5kg. Presuming XL is to Raptor what Ranger is to DSMC2, it could be more than 3kg (especially considering that Raptor is heavier than DSMC2)
 
Mike P. said:
Well Rangers are ~7.5lbs? That's ~3.5kg. Presuming XL is to Raptor what Ranger is to DSMC2, it could be more than 3kg (especially considering that Raptor is heavier than DSMC2)
Click to expand...

Yes my hope was it would be slightly lighter then the Ranger as the price premium over the small camera is rumoured to be quite a bit more... a fitted out DMSC2 to Ranger cost difference is actually pretty small I think. Say we look at a Gemini DSMC2 BRAIN, with a Sidkick , a PL mount and a DSMC2 V-LOCK I/O EXPANDER then the price is £16,600.00 and the Gemini Ranger is £18,250.00... this is a less £2000 for all the extras of the Ranger. If Red are charging more than this difference then I imagine they may sneak in some extra value? Advanced materials that save weight could be part of it?

Also I was not sure the Raptor ST is actually much heavier than a DSMC2 in a like for like situation... (But I could be very wrong;-)... I have not weighed a DSMC2 BRAIN, with a Sidkick , an Eos mount and a DSMC2 V-LOCK I/O EXPANDER but I am not sure it is more than a Raptor ST... ?

PS I also accept a really good variable ND system that doesn't preclude the use of a LPL mount would prob get my check book out even if it is heavy... Also I imagine the ND system is prob worth £2+ alone...

PPS A fully featured camera that is not heavy would make lots of assistants I know very happy!
 
The DSMC2 evf was a great concept, but the execution was off.

Some of the pros have been mentioned already, but the misses in the execution are:
- diopter was mid grade, and the focus on the center was different from the edges, like graduated bifocals.
- OLED is nice, but there was no settings for contrast/saturation/sharpness, and the brightness settings only lifted the blacks to grey or squashed the highlights, and finding a good balance to the image was impossible. Though it still worked for framing, seems they could have just used LCD at that point.
- only 2 user buttons, while hugely welcome was a bit too few.
- Resolution with HUD active was closer to 720p.


Price for the EVF and the 4.7” touch add up to about the same cost as the Arri EVF2. The thing is that for Red, despite the small profile of the EVF, one needs a touch screen to gain the same functionality as the Arri EVF2. Because not only does Arri have the small flip out screen and the better optics and image quality, they also can control the entire camera from the EVF. That mean no taking the camera off the shoulder for a fast menu item change. So the whole “DSMC2 EVF” is cheaper is not reflective of overall use and operation. They end up costing about the same price to the end user.

Just because RED hasn’t made a good EVF yet, does not mean they should give up. EVF’s are not accesories, they are part of the camera. It is crucial to have native support and to be integrated into the camera design.
 
The problem with any manufacturer making a high quality EVF is the low quantity/high cost since many people prefer to use on-board monitors.
Making a small display with high resolution & great optics in front is very expensive.

As a union operator in the episodic world I use viewfinders a great deal & find there are advantages when doing real handheld work on the shoulder.

The DXL2 has by far the best viewfinder on a digital cinema camera (outside of the optical viewfinder on an Alexa Studio).
Panavision spent a lot of money on this design and it's often a reason why people choose to use this camera over a DSMC2 Monstro.
After that my EVF preference is the Alexa Mini LF & then the Venice.
 
Patrick Tresch said:
I love the Kameleon.
Click to expand...

Same here.
First couple days I thought it was too big, to bulky, too many cables, etc… But it’s actually really confortable and with Zacuto mounts it’s super easy to set up.
worked quickly with DSMC2 EVF last month and realized I now prefer the Kameleon.
 
With all new technology 120fps and faster shutter i still have decided to skip Raptor and stay Monstro due to 4 main issues:
1) RF mount
2) Sensor issues
3) SDI issues
4) Lack of DSMC3 accessories

Hope XL is a step in the right direction and that in a first place this SDI debacle will be resolved once and for all. I understand why they went with RF but to us tahat dont use AF and photo lenses this is unnecessary compromise. I just couldn't see my self investing another 2k in Raptor specific Keppertie mount just in order to be able to ligne up anamorphic properly.

XL seams more rounded product and like a production camera that will have its own crowd.
 
Is there a way to have no delay between the filmed object and the EVF picture?
2 to 3 frames delay are too problematic for acurate framing in fast paced action.
 
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